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New York Times Endorses Hillary Clinton

This is big. The New York Times has endorsed Hillary Clinton for President. It's no tepid endorsement. It "strongly recommends" her candidacy.

Big Tent Democrat just e-mailed me and said the endorsement sounds like something I would have written. Let's take a look.

First, it describes the top contenders.

Hillary Clinton, the brilliant if at times harsh-sounding senator from New York; and Barack Obama, the incandescent if still undefined senator from Illinois. The remaining long shot, John Edwards, has enlivened the race with his own brand of raw populism.

Then, it rules out John Edwards:

The former senator from North Carolina has repudiated so many of his earlier positions, so many of his Senate votes, that we’re not sure where he stands. We certainly don’t buy the notion that he can hold back the tide of globalization.

More...

The Times then moves to historical firsts, which I've written about several times. As to race and gender, it says:

“Firstness” is not a reason to choose.

It then points out, as I have many times, there's no big difference between Hillary and Obama on issues:

On the major issues, there is no real gulf separating the two. They promise an end to the war in Iraq, more equitable taxation, more effective government spending, more concern for social issues, a restoration of civil liberties and an end to the politics of division of George W. Bush and Karl Rove.

On change:

Mr. Obama has built an exciting campaign around the notion of change, but holds no monopoly on ideas that would repair the governing of America.

Now, here's the meat of the endorsement:

Hearing her talk about the presidency, her policies and answers for America’s big problems, we are hugely impressed by the depth of her knowledge, by the force of her intellect and by the breadth of, yes, her experience.

It is unfair, especially after seven years of Mr. Bush’s inept leadership, but any Democrat will face tougher questioning about his or her fitness to be commander in chief. Mrs. Clinton has more than cleared that bar, using her years in the Senate well to immerse herself in national security issues, and has won the respect of world leaders and many in the American military. She would be a strong commander in chief.

Moving on to domestic issues, particularly health care: The Times praises Hillary and says of Obama (another point I've made many times):

Mr. Obama may also be capable of tackling such issues, but we have not yet seen it. Voters have to judge candidates not just on the promise they hold, but also on the here and now.

The Times says it wants change from Bush and his policies, just as Obama's supporters do.

But we need more specifics to go with his amorphous promise of a new governing majority, a clearer sense of how he would govern.

The Times then addresses who will be ready on day one to be President.

The next president needs to start immediately on challenges that will require concrete solutions, resolve, and the ability to make government work. Mrs. Clinton is more qualified, right now, to be president.

On Iraq, the Times says it opposed the war and notes Hillary originally supported it. But, the issue now, is how do we get out:

That’s not the issue now; it is how the war will be ended. Mrs. Clinton seems not only more aware than Mr. Obama of the consequences of withdrawal, but is already thinking through the diplomatic and military steps that will be required to contain Iraq’s chaos after American troops leave.

On civil liberties, the rule of law and balance of power:

Mr. Obama talks more about the damage Mr. Bush has done to civil liberties, the rule of law and the balance of powers. Mrs. Clinton is equally dedicated to those issues, and more prepared for the Herculean task of figuring out exactly where, how and how often the government’s powers have been misused — and what must now be done to set things right.

After asking Hillary to tone down the criticism and tone of the debate, it talks about her 2000 campaign for Senator (which I chronicled at the time here.)

We know that she is capable of both uniting and leading. We saw her going town by town through New York in 2000, including places where Clinton-bashing was a popular sport. She won over skeptical voters and then delivered on her promises and handily won re-election in 2006.

The Times concludes:

Her ideas, her comeback in New Hampshire and strong showing in Nevada, her new openness to explaining herself and not just her programs, and her abiding, powerful intellect show she is fully capable of doing just that. She is the best choice for the Democratic Party as it tries to regain the White House.

Big Tent Democrat is right. If I were to endorse Hillary Clinton right now, those are some of the arguments I would make. I think the Times is correct that Barack Obama is not ready or experienced enough to be President and that his change meme sounds good but lacks specifics. If he stays in the Senate or moves to another position in national politics and does a good job over the next several years, I could endorse him in 2016.

That leaves Hillary Clinton and John Edwards for me. I'm still not committing. I want to wait until the Feb. 5 voters have a chance to weigh in. But, if and when I decide to endorse Hillary, I will provide even more reasons to do so than those given by the Times.

< Why the New York Times Chooses McCain Over Giuliani | South Carolina Paper Endorses Hillary for Dem. Nomination >
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  • Display: Sort:
    It rang in my ears (none / 0) (#1)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 09:29:58 PM EST
    I thought, is J. on the ed board of the Times?

    I'm thinking Maureen Dowd wrote (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by oculus on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 09:59:48 PM EST
    this line:

    the brilliant if at times harsh-sounding senator from New York


    Parent
    HEH! (none / 0) (#21)
    by athyrio on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 10:15:31 PM EST
    Hillary's experience as co-president? (none / 0) (#2)
    by noodles on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 09:41:48 PM EST
    If Hillary is running on her experience as former co-president does that mean a vote for Hillary is a "twofer" like Bill called it in 1992? Apparently, this time around Bill gets to be the co-president. Pretty sneaky way around the 22nd Amendment don't you think? Personally, I'm not pleased that the new co-president illegally engaged in Extraordinary Rendition as a furtive way to torture people. Maybe this explains why the Democratic Party will never prosecute anyone in the WBush administration for rendition or torture; it implicates Bill Clinton. Also, when did Bill Clinton become the Democrat's version of Ronald Reagan (i.e., a cult hero of whom a bad word may never be spoken)? Finally, since Bill Clinton may soon be back in office as co-president isn't this the time to ask him a few questions about both his use of Extraordinary Rendition and the questionable pardons at the end of his second term?  Just asking.

    Heh (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 09:45:02 PM EST
    Interesting. The anti-Clinton Wing of the Democratic Party.

    It'll be interesting to see how that wing reacts if Hillary grabs the nomination.


    Parent

    Senators (none / 0) (#55)
    by Stellaaa on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 11:45:50 PM EST
    Do you understand the Kerry, Leahy and some other Senatorial  endorsements?  I don't remember but is it typical that they are so early?  

    Parent
    sure you can ask (none / 0) (#4)
    by white n az on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 09:44:43 PM EST
    but you know he won't answer

    Parent
    Not at all a twofer (none / 0) (#6)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 09:46:25 PM EST
    Hillary is running on her own record, and if you'd do some research, you'd see it's a considerable one, both as First Lady and during the six years of her first Senatorial term.  Obama has been in the Senate since 2005 and began running for President in the beginning of 2007 -- he says he decided that New Years'. He's accomplished very little during those two years in the Senate as compared to Hillary or John Edwards.

    Parent
    Frankly (none / 0) (#57)
    by Stellaaa on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 11:50:15 PM EST
    I was totally anti Hillary.  When I watched the Reno Gazette interview with her I was floored at the depth of her knowledge of public policy, programs and her ideas on how to fix things.  I agree with the Times we don't have time for a learning curve.  The new president has to like government, know how it works and start working.  I was imagining hiring cabinets etc, that usually takes half a year and nothing gets done.  She has it rigged.  Also, I saw something in her that I recognized, a devotion to public service.  Finally, she is friggin articulate.  When she talks, she does not blather.  So refreshing.  Hate to be gender based, but that is what I noticed in all my years in government, women don't just talk to talk, they say it clearly and they stop. (Unlike me right now)

    Parent
    Seemingly lost in the mudslinging debate in SC (none / 0) (#3)
    by white n az on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 09:43:53 PM EST
    Hillary clearly and passionately insisted that she could not get behind a health care plan that omitted any Americans. She left Obama in the dust with that.

    Now, I am for Edwards and he gets my vote Feb 5th, no matter what and the value of an endorsement by the NYT is probably not all that meaningful.

    Yes, some of the votes that Senators have to cast are tricky and Edwards has repudiated some of his votes but I admire his ability to admit his mistakes...to bad it doesn't play well in the political realm to do that. Hillary and Barack clearly won't renounce their own voting mistakes, that much is clear. Courage is elusive and I give Edwards and Clinton high marks on courage. I definitely penalize Obama's courage for ducking votes (can you say Lieberman/Kyl).

    congrats to Hillary (none / 0) (#7)
    by athyrio on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 09:55:34 PM EST
    Kudos to Hillary and to NY Times for a very well written endorsement and I could not agree more!!!!

    Jeralyn, this is a great line (none / 0) (#8)
    by oculus on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 09:56:04 PM EST
    from you:  "This is no tepid endorsement."

    So much for Maureen (none / 0) (#11)
    by felizarte on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 10:02:25 PM EST
    I'd be most interested to see what Paul Krugman has to say about this.

    Parent
    Krugman (none / 0) (#23)
    by Nasarius on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 10:16:43 PM EST
    I get the impression that he supports Edwards, but would reluctantly take Clinton over Obama. But maybe I'm just projecting my own biases here.

    Parent
    that was meant as a comparison to (none / 0) (#15)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 10:10:02 PM EST
    the Reno Review Journal's endorsement of Obama, which I wrote about here. The paper said:

    Is Barack Obama, then, the ideal Democratic candidate for president? Hardly. His policy recommendations -- when he can be convinced to get any more specific than "I represent change" -- are the opposite of "change." They're old-line, welfare-state solutions that haven't spent enough time in the microwave to appear even superficially appetizing.


    Parent
    Oculus was making fun of me (5.00 / 3) (#20)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 10:14:06 PM EST
    and my tepid endorsement of Obama.

    Parent
    Today in CA , public radio (none / 0) (#30)
    by oculus on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 10:23:30 PM EST
    throughout the state had a program on the upcoming primaries.  Callers, e-mailers, and Field Poll spokesperson.  A male caller stated his principal issue was U.S. leaving Iraq and he was voting for Obama, not because he knew what Obama would do on that issue as President, but because he trusted him.  I thought of you, BTD.

    On the other hand, another caller changed registration to vote for Ron Paul because he is the only clear advocate against the war.

    A different caller, an active duty Marine who has been deployed to Iraq twice, switched parties so he can vote for McCain.

    What a crazy world we live in, and that doesn't even get to the issue of immmigration.

    Parent

    Is that true? (none / 0) (#53)
    by Stellaaa on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 11:40:06 PM EST
    Or are callers more crazy?

    Parent
    Oh sure! (none / 0) (#18)
    by oculus on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 10:13:09 PM EST
    BTW:  is the prevailing view at Daily Kos incorrect?  Did the NYT always oppose invasion of Iraq?  I seem to remember lots of castigation of Judith Miller mouthing the Bush administrations talking points.  

    Parent
    Please (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 10:15:42 PM EST
    Daily Kos is populated by idiots.

    The NYTimes Editorial page issued a long editorial against the war at the time.

    They are quickly becoming the dumbest dopes in the entire blogoshpere. NOT the FPers, the community.

    Parent

    I don't have to be as polite as you. (none / 0) (#24)
    by oculus on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 10:17:16 PM EST
    Kos is reaping what he sowed long ago re Hillary Clinton.  

    Parent
    Lets' not insult (none / 0) (#26)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 10:18:32 PM EST
    other blogs or their readers, okay?

    Parent
    ure, but reading it is really (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by oculus on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 10:19:52 PM EST
    disappointing.

    Parent
    Um sure (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 10:22:15 PM EST
    Cept it is true.

    Parent
    indeed it is (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by Nasarius on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 10:32:04 PM EST
    I just rediscovered this site a couple days ago, and it's a breath of fresh air. 95% of the dialogue on DKos now is candidate-spamming idiots, followed closely by the even more annoying people who can't stop whining about the candidate-spamming idiots.

    So anyway, TalkLeft is now on my short list of blogs, after Glenn Greenwald's and SadlyNo, where I can read and enjoy the posts and the comments.

    Parent

    thanks....but (none / 0) (#47)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 11:23:28 PM EST
    I also hope you keep reading Markos and the other front pagers at Daily Kos. I think Markos is great. As to comments, I don't have time to read the comments at other blogs much, it's hard enough keeping up with the posts, so I can't really say.

    It's also one of the reasons TalkLeft closes threads when they approach 200 -- I can't read all the comments to make sure the comment rules are enforced.

    So I welcome all the new commenters here but urge you to write your thoughts about the topic of the thread rather than criticize other bloggers and commenters.

    Parent

    Yes, it is. (none / 0) (#69)
    by Plutonium Page on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 04:19:23 AM EST
    Thanks for the "NOT the FPers" part, though :P

    Parent
    True (none / 0) (#70)
    by TheRealFrank on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 04:26:37 AM EST
    I do have hope that they are "part-time idiots". It's sad, some people you could discuss things with pleasantly and intelligently have now turned into frothing-at-the-mouth candidate pushers/bashers.

    You see those everywhere, but they seem to have flocked to dKos in particularly large numbers.

    TalkLeft has been a breath of fresh air. No offense, but I hope it doesn't get too popular ;-)


    Parent

    Myrtle Beach paper also endorsed (none / 0) (#50)
    by felizarte on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 11:28:04 PM EST
    http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/opinion/story/325218.html

    the tenor and rationale is similar; the language slightly more colorful. I pasted the url if someone could please do the linking.  I am not familiar with this procedure, yet.

    Parent

    Hope this works: (none / 0) (#51)
    by oculus on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 11:31:28 PM EST
    Me, too (none / 0) (#10)
    by xjt on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 10:00:25 PM EST
    "...we are hugely impressed by the depth of her knowledge, by the force of her intellect and by the breadth of, yes, her experience."

    Corporate media giant endorsement... (none / 0) (#12)
    by dutchfox on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 10:02:34 PM EST
    so what else is new? And the people have barely spoken in the primaries and caucuses. Makes me sick.

    the people have nothing to do with this (none / 0) (#14)
    by diplomatic on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 10:07:44 PM EST
    An editorial board doesn't have to wait around and see which way the wind is blowing and how the voters vote before deciding who they believe would make the best nominee.  Their role is the opposite of that.  They are the opinion makers, not opinion takers.

    The spinning against this endorsement has already begun at Dkos, and I suspect everywhere by tommorrow morning.

    Parent

    Rudy was spinning it during the debate. (none / 0) (#19)
    by oculus on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 10:14:06 PM EST
    So after Waco (none / 0) (#13)
    by Rojas on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 10:04:07 PM EST
    Did the clinton's do anything to discover where, how and how often the government’s powers were misused — and more importantly, do anything at all to set things right?

    Seems blaming the victims for their own demise pretty much sums up their championship for civil rights.

    Waco? (none / 0) (#16)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 10:12:21 PM EST
    Sheesh.

    Parent
    Fan of David Koresh? (none / 0) (#17)
    by RalphB on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 10:12:33 PM EST
    Another representative of the Anti-Clinton wing :-)


    Parent
    blaming the victims? (none / 0) (#25)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 10:17:17 PM EST
    I seem to remember that my client was sentenced to death during Bill Clinton's presidency for causing the deaths of 168 people in Oklahoma.  Bill Clinton got AEDPA passed, another law good for victims but bad for defendants -- and passed a law allowing for out of town victims to view court proceedings in their home towns.

    One thing you can't say about Clinton is that he disregarded victims' rights. He sure didn't protect defendants' rights the way he should have -- and I do blame him for that. And when it comes to Hillary, Obama and Edwards, they're all pretty much on the same page for victims.

    One last note: If it's victims' rights you're concerned about, you are definitely reading the wrong blog.

    Parent

    umm (none / 0) (#35)
    by white n az on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 10:40:40 PM EST
    One last note: If it's victims' rights you're concerned about, you are definitely reading the wrong blog.

    I know where you're coming from on this but I think you are leaving the impression that you don't care about victim's rights which I don't believe to be true. Anyway, thanks for being who you are.

    Parent

    True enough (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 10:44:10 PM EST
    I don't mean to imply I don't care about victims' rights. It's just that this blog is dedicated to promoting the rights of those accused of crime.


    Parent
    What about Prisons? (none / 0) (#43)
    by womanwarrior on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 10:52:31 PM EST
        Didn't Clinton, or the Clinton's, if we are talking about experience, contribute big time to the number of people locked up in prisons in this country today?  Didn't Hillary Clinton recently say that the crack guidelines should not be retroactive?  
        No, the NYT is not for change.  And Hillary will not bring big changes.  Will she attack Iran if Bush doesn't get around to it?  I hope not.  
        Clinton did not do anything to turn around the right wing turn to the right. The Clintons were part of making the Democrats more like the Republicans.  
        Yes, HRC is a woman.  But the right woman?

    Parent
    Your client no doubt killed what (none / 0) (#45)
    by Rojas on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 11:05:08 PM EST
    little momentum for reform that was growing along with those people. And of course the administration used that terrible event as a shield to brand all critics of their handling of the waco fiasco as "extremists". Much the same as bush positing if ones against torture, Iraq, (or any limit to executive power) you support the terrorists.

    I not talking about victim's rights in the sense you refer to. I'm talking about the rights of the accused.

    Did you follow what went on there? I think NACDL had some writings in the aftermath. If you did do you believe that it was an watershed event that called out for reform


    Parent

    I wrote (none / 0) (#46)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 11:14:52 PM EST
    NACDL's legislative column during those years...and I criticized Clinton plenty. Check out this one, Partisan Politics vs. the Bill of Rights (9/96).

    Congress has once again placed itself on a collision course with the Bill of Rights. With the presidential and congressional elections just two months away, our politicians are once more trying to demonstrate their tough stance on crime and concern for our security by introducing and promising swift passage of legislation that diminishes our privacy rights and provides even greater powers to federal law enforcement agencies.

    Using the tragedies of TWA Flight 800 and the Olympic bombing in Atlanta to instill fear of terrorism in the heart of every American, our politicians are promising to make us safe and secure by giving the FBI the power to wiretap more of us with less judicial scrutiny, to access our personal and financial records with no judicial oversight, and to seize our assets by classifying us as "terrorists" based upon our personal and political beliefs.

    President Clinton and the Democrats are behind this latest assault on our privacy rights. On the eve of the first anniversary of the Oklahoma bombing in April, 1996, Congress passed the Anti-Terrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996. The Democrats were very disappointed, however, because the bill passed without proposed expansions of wiretapping authority.

    With the exception of Hillary's one misguided statement that she had concerns in principle with retroactivity of the crack sentence reductions, she has been as strong as the others in vowing to change mandatory minimums and end the disparity in sentencing, to focus on prevention over incarceration and create offender re-entry programs. I've quoted her exact words in several posts.

    The bottom line is none of them are going to be great for defendant's rights....they are all fairly identical on the issues....which means I look to other factors.

    Parent

    Understood, but did you follow (none / 0) (#48)
    by Rojas on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 11:23:55 PM EST
    the events there and did you believe that it was an watershed event that called out for reform?

    Parent
    Do you mean Waco? (none / 0) (#64)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 12:23:49 AM EST
    Yes I followed Waco quite closely and attribute it to a failure by Janet Reno and the FBI.  Waco was a travesty. As to specific reform measures, I'm not sure what you mean. But we're way off topic, so let's leave it for another day, okay? Thanks for your comments, hope you stick around.

    Parent
    To the topic (none / 0) (#78)
    by Rojas on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 09:26:30 AM EST
    From the endorsement on civil liberties
    Mrs. Clinton is equally dedicated to those issues, and more prepared for the Herculean task of figuring out exactly where, how and how often the government’s powers have been misused — and what must now be done to set things right.

    From my point of view much of what went wrong at waco was the result of bad republican ideas coming to fruition.
    Some of the NACDL position papers from the period highlight this. In the aftermath, the clintons had the power to "set things right" and clearly they did not.

    A central issue, it was covered in "The Defender" I believe, was prosecutorial missconduct. The manipulation of the Brady rule. Clearly this is an issue that keeps rearing it's ugly head and it goes to the very foundation of who we are as a nation. The DOJ at waco shut down the ATF shooting review (4 agents had been interviewed) because "they were developing Brady material".

    I'll never forget the administration's response when this was leaked. Mary White called a press conference and refered to it as "Prosecution 101".

    As you have said yourself, it's the devil you know against the devil you don't. THey did noting to change the trend line against civil liberties. And from this layman's view they only increased the downward spiral.

    Parent

    And by the way (none / 0) (#52)
    by Rojas on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 11:36:55 PM EST
    I remember reading some of those collums back in the day and I'd like to express my appreciation. I felt a great deal of shame at what our goverment was doing and it was very uplifting to see those who were speaking truth to power.

    Parent
    Can Anyone Give Me Some Insight (none / 0) (#28)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 10:21:32 PM EST
    on what group(s) of the party persuaded Obama to run for president now and why?

    Seems he would have increased his chances if he had waited and built his creds.

    Daley machine? Just speculating though. (none / 0) (#31)
    by oculus on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 10:27:14 PM EST
    It was his speech (none / 0) (#32)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 10:27:20 PM EST
    at the 2004 convention in Boston that got people talking about him running for President. I wish he had declined until he had more creds. But he allowed himself to be convinced. And now he's here. I don't get the sense now he will go the distance -- and I don't think South Carolina will matter much to the rest of the country.

    Parent
    I Know That The Speech Was The Basis Of (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 10:42:13 PM EST
    the excitement. IMO that doesn't seem like a significant qualification for the presidency. The why in my question was more about why now.

    Seems to me that he would have increased his chances with more Senate accomplishments and a reelection campaign (hopefully tougher) behind him. Doesn't come across to me in debates etc. that he is quite ready to pull this off.

    Parent

    Didn't JFK make a keynote speech (none / 0) (#39)
    by oculus on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 10:46:34 PM EST
    that brought him into the national limelight in the Dem. party?

    Parent
    I was in the audience in Boston (none / 0) (#44)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 11:02:26 PM EST
    during his speech and I can't the specifics of it. When I went back to see my live blog from that night, there's nothing about the content of it, only that he spoke and "the crowd loved him." Compare my rave review of John Kerry's, Wes Clark's and Edwards' speeches.


    Parent
    And I recall reading John Kerry (none / 0) (#33)
    by oculus on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 10:31:24 PM EST
    selected Barack Obama to give that key note speech.

    Parent
    I don't think he has a choice now (none / 0) (#42)
    by white n az on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 10:52:04 PM EST
    He has to go the distance just to honor those that invested their money, their heart and their souls to the belief that he could win. If he deserts the campaign and fails to maneuver his supporters back into the fold, he will kill his future chances.

    The problem with being in the US Senate is that his voting record and his sponsorships, achievements will be his legacy and possibly his undoing. The Senate is typically a lousy place to launch your campaign...just look at tonight and how well someone like Romney can make his case for being a Washington outside, much like Bush, Clinton, Reagan and Carter did before him.

    Parent

    Indeed. (none / 0) (#76)
    by Klio on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 09:02:04 AM EST
    I watched his convention speech from home and I remember it being electrifying.  

    Which is all the more reason I'm disappointed and confused by the turn his rhetoric has taken.  Here's a man who used the Democratic Convention as his springboard to national prominence, yet he's offering as his strengths a lack of "investment" in the historic Democratic battles, his appeal to independents and Republicans ....  

    Discouraging to say the least.  

    Parent

    Marc Ambinder (none / 0) (#60)
    by standingup on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 12:11:43 AM EST
    has an article in The Atlantic that might give some additional insight into how he the decision was made.  It is a very lengthy piece but well worth the read.  

    If I were to take a guess, I would say it there were several factors.  This article does not cover the timing that Obama has discussed in his comparison with the 1980 election but I do believe it played a role.  Mark Warner's decision not to run also left an opening for those looking to put up an opponent to Hillary.  Ego and ambition might have made the task of persuasion simpler for those pushing for now rather than later.  

    Also, I have tried to find more information on Tom Daschle's role and relationship with Obama.  I have read that Obama sought out Daschle during the 2004 election and even donated $85,000 of his own campaign money to help Daschle who had been targeted by Rove that year.  Pretty savvy move for an incoming Senator.    

    Parent

    As the article states, Obama also hired (none / 0) (#61)
    by oculus on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 12:16:55 AM EST
    Daschle's congressional chief of staff.  

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#65)
    by standingup on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 12:29:19 AM EST
    and suggests there is a possibility Daschle could be considered as a choice for V.P.  I thought that one might be more of a stretch with Linda Daschle's career as a lobbyist.  

    Parent
    wanting the President's job (none / 0) (#73)
    by Kathy on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 07:19:21 AM EST
    If you ask me, anyone who wants the job has got to be absolutely crazy...with an ego the size of a bus.  It defies logic to put yourself under that kind of scrutiny.  Yeah, there is the passion to get things done, but also the passion for attention, etc.  And frankly, I want an egotistical president.  I don't want someone in that job who didn't have to fight for it because they are going to have to fight every single day afterward.  There's a reason why presidents lost sleep and gain weight and get heart problems.

    Back on topic: yay, Hillary!  The sound you now hear is a brick dropping between Marueen Dowd's feet.

    Parent

    Is this (none / 0) (#37)
    by Bob In Pacifica on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 10:43:26 PM EST
    the same New York Times that lied us into the war in Iraq?

    Please don't confuse (none / 0) (#40)
    by RalphB on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 10:50:20 PM EST
    the editorial board with Judy Miller.  The editorial board was very much against going into Iraq.


    Parent
    No (none / 0) (#71)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 06:27:11 AM EST
    The  news and ed board are different.

    Parent
    Anyone else (none / 0) (#41)
    by NJDem on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 10:51:12 PM EST
    watching MSNBC and observing that all they're talking about is Hillary and not so much about the issues discussed?  Not that I am surprised, but it seems she always frames the debate, even when it's really not about her (or the Dems for that matter?).  

    In terms of why Obama ran now and didn't wait to built more creds, I think it speaks to a certain hubris (the same word attributed to Bush) I see in him, especially at the last debate--and also when considering that he wrote a memoir when he was 33?  I like and respect the guy, but what made him think he was ready?  Why the rush if not the same ambition the Clinton's are criticized for?  

    Interesting point about the autobiography (none / 0) (#49)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 11:25:40 PM EST
    I've wondered about that too.

    Parent
    example (none / 0) (#56)
    by Jgarza on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 11:50:13 PM EST
    I think it speaks to a certain hubris (the same word attributed to Bush) I see in him, especially at the last debate--and also when considering that he wrote a memoir when he was 33?

    So personal attacks are OK as long as the blog publishers agree with them.  In a post about a Hillary endorsement, we get back to Obama bashing.

    You guys seem happy to debate in a forum of only Hillary supporters.  Don't ask me for support in a general, if only like minded opinions matter now, I'm happy not to vote her.

    Parent

    First black president of Harvard Law Review (none / 0) (#58)
    by joejoejoe on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 11:51:37 PM EST
    The Harvard Law Review has been around since 1887 and was founded by Louis Brandeis. Four of the current SCOTUS justices are alumni of the Harvard Law Review. As the first black president of the Harvard Law Review Obama was an interesting character, interesting enough that a NY publisher offered Obama a small advance to write the memoir. In other words, there was a demand for the story irrespective of Obama's ambitions.

    Parent
    She certainly isn't pulling any punches (none / 0) (#59)
    by oculus on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 12:09:37 AM EST
    on her campaign website.  It includes quotes from Barack Obama, followed by a call out and explanation.  Quite effective.

    "personal attack"? (none / 0) (#62)
    by NJDem on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 12:18:41 AM EST
    Hardly.  A pro-story about someone implies that it is anti someone, in this case Obama (and to a lesser degree Edwards).  

    And by your measure, I'm sure a bunch of publishers would love Britney to write an autobiography, it doesn't mean she should accept (I'm obviously not equating the two, but just because there's a market for a story doesn't justify it).  

    Answer me this, when in the history of presidential elections has a junior senator just elected to the Senate think he/she is qualified to run for president?  And don't use the Edwards example, as that is clearly not a model of glowing success.    

    Well NYT's (none / 0) (#66)
    by Jgarza on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 12:31:50 AM EST
    endorsed McCain, so same CW that the people that got us into Iraq are best equipped to get us out.  I don't buy it.  So if i buy there choice McCain and Hillary are equal choices.

    Answer me this, when in the history of presidential elections has a junior senator just elected to the Senate think he/she is qualified to run for president?

    My Answer Abraham Lincoln.

    Answer me this when in history has being first lady qualified someone to be president?

    Parent

    Eleanor Roosevelt...more than qualified (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by oldpro on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 03:34:52 AM EST
    to be president.

    Parent
    you are SO right! (none / 0) (#81)
    by Judith on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 11:34:47 AM EST
    she didn't (none / 0) (#83)
    by Jgarza on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 12:15:24 PM EST
    run for President.

    Parent
    he answered what you asked. (none / 0) (#86)
    by Judith on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 01:12:08 PM EST
    or she (none / 0) (#87)
    by Judith on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 01:12:44 PM EST
    sorry oldpro, no idea which it is.  Aint that great?

    Parent
    She. Thanks, Judith.... (none / 0) (#89)
    by oldpro on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 09:53:10 PM EST
    According to Wiki, Lincoln (none / 0) (#67)
    by oculus on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 12:40:58 AM EST
    served in the IL Legislature, and then one term in the U.S. House of Representatives, did not stand for reelection, returned to IL, practiced law, ran for U.S. Senate against Douglas but lost, and then ran for President  of the U.S.  

    Parent
    jgarza raises a point (none / 0) (#74)
    by Kathy on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 07:42:05 AM EST
    And, like Lincoln, Obama was endorsed by an elitist group (abolitionism did not take off as a movement until the rest of the world finally woke up to their message).  Unlike Obama, Lincoln was running during a time when it took about three days for the news to get from Chicago to New York, not three seconds.  Further, Lincoln did not have a speech writer (like all candidates have) or marketing or "truth" hotlines.

    On the other hand, there are many, many more historical examples of first ladies working behind the scenes (as women do) to get major, major initiatives passed.  Eleanor Roosevelt is oft cited, but Martha Washington sat in on informal talks about treaties with Indian nations, and Edith Wilson accompanied her husband, Woodrow, to Paris for treaty negotiations after World War I.

    (I copied and pasted that last part from an article)

    As far as I can remember, except for Nancy with her acting career, not many first ladies had real-world work experience they could parlay into a political future.

    Now, please don't tell me the "I am a surgeon, would you want my wife operating on you" tale, because the wife in question is an ivy-league educated, self-admitted policy wonk. She wasn't home baking cookies and closing--er, reading--in libraries to children.

    Parent

    My comment (none / 0) (#85)
    by Jgarza on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 12:28:40 PM EST
    was simply intended to point out, that if presidents have to use the precedent, of what has in the past been considered experience for running for president, Hillary has a problem.

    So his line about what jr senator has thought he was qualified to run therefore Obama arrogant, is not effective line of reasoning.

    Parent

    Are you saying first Lady is all HRC has done or (none / 0) (#75)
    by Molly Bloom on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 08:43:09 AM EST
    that she was a typical first lady?

    BTW the complaint of the Obama partisans is that Obama's record is distorted. While I think it a mistake to trust any Bush and certainly I did not trust this one, given that the AUMF was sold as

    1. a last resort option,
    2. to show Saddam "we meant business", and
    3. It worked as intended- Saddam did contact us and did say he would allow inspectors

    isn't a distortion to say CW got us into this mess? Arguably CW worked. It was trusting Bush that got us into this mess. In public Bush said he hoped force would not have to be used. Turns out, he always intended to invade. Again, I wouldn't have trusted Bush. I suspect you didn't either. I think your characterization is a distortion.

    You further distort HRC's position by saying it is the same as McCain. HRC has publicly called for getting out of Iraq as expeditiously as possible. McCain has said he is down for staying  100 years. Big difference.

    Given these serial distortions, I assume you will not complain as Obama's record get distorted. Fair game- right?

     

    Parent

    I'm not (none / 0) (#80)
    by Jgarza on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 10:30:36 AM EST
    saying that she isn't qualified.  I'm responding to this line about historical president of a junior senator thinking he is qualified, there is no historical precedent for a president running based on a first lady record.

    If only certain types of experience, that have historical president, can count towards being qualified, then Senator Clinton isn't qualified either.

    Parent

    what distortions? (none / 0) (#84)
    by Jgarza on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 12:25:03 PM EST
    1 a last resort option,
    2 to show Saddam "we meant business", and
    3 It worked as intended- Saddam did contact us and did say he would allow inspectors

    Any one who believed that is not qualified to be president.  On top of that, when it was clear he was going to attack even though the inspectors weren't finished, why didn't she speak up?  She is only against the war when public opinion is against it.

    isn't a distortion to say CW got us into this mess? Arguably CW worked.

    How did CW work? what are you talking about.

    In a general election McCain/any other republican is going to come out for troop withdraw.  He is going to say the surge worked an now we can leave.

    So then she will have the same position as them.  So what she is going to argue if she were president she would have gotten us out faster?  She can't say the war wasn't worth because she supported it.  The line will  be she follows public opinion, and I'm sorry to say but it is accurate.

    Parent

    apparently reading is not your strong suit (none / 0) (#88)
    by Molly Bloom on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 01:14:15 PM EST
    I believe I adequately explained why CW was arguably correct- the CW was give the President the muscle to back up his words and Saddam will fold. Saddam did in fact (as we subsequently learned) offer to let inspectors in -i.e. folded. Bush ignored the offer. I didn't trust Bush anyway. But the CW wasn't whether Bush could be trusted.

    As for Obama, he can't stop funding the war-  apparently he is only against the war with speeches, not deeds. I can unfairly distort just like you.

    McCain can't afford to back track now. Even if I am wrong about that, you are now claiming HRC's position is the same as McCain's- clearly it is not. When called upon it you use magical thinking and change it to sometime in the near future they will have the same position. Clearly you distort. Clearly you are so sure of your unimpeachable integrity, you can't see what you or your preferred candidate do. I would be remiss if I did not point out that  Bush is also sure of his own unimpeachable integrity. Maybe you should think about that.

    Parent

    My pleasure (none / 0) (#63)
    by chemoelectric on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 12:19:20 AM EST
    It will be my pleasure on Feb 5 to help you make up your mind in favor of John Edwards.

    Mara Eliason (none / 0) (#72)
    by bob h on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 06:46:15 AM EST
    characterized the recommendation as lukewarm this morning on Morning Edition.  Did she really read it?

    I wish the (none / 0) (#79)
    by Wile ECoyote on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 10:19:44 AM EST
    NYT would list some of the people in the military who are impressed with her.  

    Are You Saying (none / 0) (#82)
    by BDB on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 12:09:21 PM EST
    Obama wouldn't have signed NAFTA?  The Welfare Reform Act?  The Communications Decency Act? Because I haven't heard him say that and if I did, I'm not sure I'd believe him.