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No Shameless Hacks Here

Right wing bloggers are talking about a post on TalkLeft in which I supposedly called Keith Olbermann "a shameless hack." Unfortunately, they didn't read correctly and I didn't call Olbermann that. TalkLeft and I do not engage in name-calling.

I checked the link, and Big Tent Democrat had added an update to one of my April posts, using his initials BTD to clearly indicate it was written by him, calling Olbermann a "“the most shameless ridiculous hack on TV.

Since it was my post, and the right wing blogs are attributing it to me rather than BTD or even TalkLeft, I deleted BTD's update from my post.

So if you are looking for me calling KO "a shameless hack" you aren't going to find it because I never said it.

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    i'll say it... (5.00 / 18) (#1)
    by english teacher on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 07:54:50 PM EST
    keith olbermann is a shameless hack.  

    I was quite amused (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by pie on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 08:20:43 PM EST
    by the critique in the LATimes.

    Hey, if the shoe fits...

    Parent

    Really....If Jeralyn had said it....she would (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 10:32:38 PM EST
    only have been speaking the truth.  He continues to sink to new lows.

    Parent
    Thank you English Teacher... (none / 0) (#159)
    by bmc on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 07:41:58 AM EST
    I'll say it too. As a former journalist, with educational bonafides, I'll second it:

    Keith Olbermann is a shameless hack.

    That Olbermann co-opted Murrow's sign-off of "Good night and good luck," is the single most craven act of hubris ever witnessed in cable punditry. It infuriates me because Olbermann both implies his own equivalence to Murrow, at the same time he insults Murrow--and his viewers--by tossing "the news" in the air.

    Rosenberg nailed it in the LATimes:

    http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/tv/la-et-comment7-2008jun07,0,834902.story

    Parent

    Hear! Hear! (5.00 / 4) (#2)
    by progressiveinvolvement on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 07:58:09 PM EST
    Olbermann was embarrassing even when he was bashing Bush.  I remember thinking:  Well, if you really believe what you're saying, Keith, why aren't you leading a revolution?  If you're not, then you must just be another garden-variety blowhard."

    Well, (5.00 / 6) (#4)
    by frankly0 on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 08:02:25 PM EST
    if the shoe fits, you know.

    But actually the poster at HotAir have a very real point.

    I truly never again will trust, not only Olbermann, who is a sh**ss h*k, but virtually anyone in the MSM to be fair to any politician. I really will and do wonder to what extent they have unfairly savaged not only Democrats, but Republicans in the past.

    I know I vehemently disagree with Republicans and pretty much all they stand for, but it does seem to me that I could easily have failed to notice, or simply ignored, unfair smears on them in the past, because I had no motivation to pay attention to the facts, and an objective interpretation of those facts.

    Really, this primary, and the disgraceful cheerleading the MSM has engaged in, is a lesson that doesn't get unlearned.

    I'm still trying to put together in my own mind what the unfolding of this primary says about the MSM, the Democratic Party, and, indeed, me.

    I have the horrible (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by RalphB on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 08:12:35 PM EST
    feeling that perhaps I've fallen for propaganda in the past and didn't see it because of my own preconceptions.  This year, combined with selling the Iraq war, should be a signal to us all to believe nothing without some kind of triple check.

    Just as disturbing is what is not reported by the MSM?  Orwellian eh?


    Parent

    KO wasn't wrong about (5.00 / 0) (#23)
    by pie on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 08:26:58 PM EST
    the Bush administration.

    The problem was his Edward R. Murrow shtick didn't do anything to bring the terrorist to justice.

    Parent

    Not saying it was his responsibility, btw. (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by pie on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 08:42:53 PM EST
    But he was milking the outrage knowing nothing would change.  

    In other words, he was trying to get ratings.  He couldn't care less about the state of the nation.

    Parent

    Unfortunately (none / 0) (#155)
    by Y Knot on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 06:29:45 AM EST
    It's been going on for quite some time.  I mean, just look at the war we're in, in no small part, because of shameless cheerleading from the press.

    And the Clintons back in the 90s... they weren't angels, but the media whipped a lot of those stories about them into a frenzy.

    It's not about idiology though.  It's about money.  Ever since the networks started thinking about their news divisions as profit centers rather than a public service, the focus has been about making money.  The truth is often just not that profitable, unfortunately.  A long, drawn out battle between two popular candidates of a major party war though... that'll bring in millions.  Especially if they can really whip up some good old-fashioned outrage on both sides to REALLY bring in the viewers.  

    A good war or three, though?  That'll bring in billions.  Expect them to push hard for McCain come the fall.


    Parent

    Let's just say (5.00 / 6) (#5)
    by mikeyleigh on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 08:03:17 PM EST
    that Olbermann's professed hero, Edward R. Murrow, never acted in such a shameless, partisan manner.  KO should drop the "goodnight and good luck" sign-off.  Every time he uses it he makes a fool of himself.

    Murrow v Olberman (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by Valhalla on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 08:59:49 PM EST
    Maybe this has been posted here before, but ShutthefreudUp's video Mad as H*ll/B*tch makes this point quite apparent.

    Watch until at least the 29 secs point.

    Parent

    They make their own point about bad reporting (5.00 / 5) (#7)
    by lilburro on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 08:08:51 PM EST
    by being bad reporters.  Alas.

    One of the times I was ... (5.00 / 5) (#17)
    by Robot Porter on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 08:17:38 PM EST
    attacked most vehemently at that orangey place was when I wouldn't accept that notion that KO was "a great journalist."

    In fact, I wouldn't accept that he was a journalist at all.

    I'm sorry but anyone who devotes a significant portion of their show to video of a monkey riding a dog isn't a journalist in my book.

    Parent

    for the record (5.00 / 14) (#8)
    by Turkana on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 08:09:11 PM EST
    and speaking only for me:

    olbermann is a shameless hack.

    But, but, but, . . . My friend who switched (5.00 / 8) (#12)
    by oculus on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 08:12:15 PM EST
    to Obama (due to Clinton's gas tax holiday proposal) faithfully watches Olbermann and says he is fair and balanced.

    Parent
    I've heard a similar story (5.00 / 8) (#14)
    by andgarden on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 08:13:21 PM EST
    Not only is he a shameless hack, he's a poison to our national discourse.

    Parent
    Too bad the Celtics/Lakers game (5.00 / 4) (#15)
    by oculus on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 08:15:12 PM EST
    is in progress!

    Parent
    has jon stewart (none / 0) (#74)
    by boredmpa on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 10:00:32 PM EST
    been on his show?

    Parent
    what Turkana said (5.00 / 6) (#31)
    by kredwyn on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 08:45:53 PM EST
    What turkana said (none / 0) (#125)
    by vcmvo2 on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 11:01:10 PM EST
    goes for me too! KO is a shameless hack (speaking only for me)

    Parent
    I'll second that (5.00 / 1) (#136)
    by Brookhaven on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 11:29:53 PM EST
    and add, (paraphrasing Al Franken's love letter to Rush Limbaugh), Keith is a big, fat poser.

    And, this last is me speaking for me.  

    Here is some great commentary from Bob Somerby on this topic.  

    Scroll down on the first one to get to the pertinent part.

    Keep Outrage Alive

    Torch is Passed

    Parent

    Pretty pathetic that right wing bloggers... (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by Maria Garcia on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 08:10:37 PM EST
    ...don't have anything better to talk about.

    One way to avoid name calling (5.00 / 14) (#10)
    by Edgar08 on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 08:11:24 PM EST
    Keith Olberman is a person, as an artist or writer, who exploits, for money, his or her creative ability or training in the production of dull, unimaginative, and trite work; one who produces banal and mediocre work in the hope of gaining commercial success in the arts.

    Keith Olberman is a professional who renounces or surrenders individual independence, integrity, belief, etc., in return for money or other reward in the performance of a task normally thought of as involving a strong personal commitment.

    Etc.

    But if one was interested in saving bandwidth it's good to know one word can be used to convey all that's been described above.... and more!

    Shameless journalism (5.00 / 5) (#11)
    by townecrier on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 08:12:09 PM EST
    Whatever happened to a professional journalist's mantra of objectivity?  Isn't that supposed to be a fundamental principle of their profession?  Mainstream media should purge itself.

    I could go for some (5.00 / 3) (#21)
    by Fabian on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 08:21:13 PM EST
    "shameless journalism"!

    Too bad the media has decided that infotainment and infotainers are where the money is at.

    (I'm beginning to think of it as misinfotainment and misinfotainers now.  BTW - is it me or are the female news presenters on cable news shows all botoxed to the max or what?  I only see cable at McDonald's (so apropos!) so I've never studied the phenomena thoroughly.)

    Can I call KO a shameless misinfotainer?

    Parent

    There is little "news" on (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by andgarden on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 08:24:59 PM EST
    the so-called cable news channels. MSNBC, in particular, started life as the "America's Talking" channel. Fundamentally, it hasn't changed.

    Parent
    Can I call KO a shameless misinfotainer? (5.00 / 4) (#34)
    by townecrier on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 08:51:20 PM EST
    If you wish.

    Parent
    Objectivity ... (5.00 / 3) (#29)
    by Robot Porter on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 08:42:22 PM EST
    is more difficult to achieve than one might think.  Even choosing one story over another is an example of subjectivity and bias.

    But if journalists stuck to reporting facts, and stopped letting opinion drift into their reporting, I'd be fine with that.

    And it creeps in all the time.  When you describe a political speech as being "a blistering attack" that is not a fact.  Unless, of course, the speech actually raised blisters.

    Even journalism based on a biased premise is easier to make use of if it sticks to the facts.

    Parent

    Objectivity (5.00 / 0) (#35)
    by townecrier on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 08:56:59 PM EST
    Agree.
    But then MSM would become so dull.  I wonder if the MSM could live with that.  The marriage of sensationalism with journalism = MSM of today.

    Parent
    Objectivity is impossiible (5.00 / 3) (#48)
    by Cream City on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 09:20:23 PM EST
    but is a goal to which the best strive.  There ya go, KO.  Striving toward ratings, instead.

    Btw, the problem inherent in the development of "journalistic objectivity" -- I actually have read, researched, studied this -- is that it began about a century ago as an attempt to emulate scientific objectivity, i.e., a methodology.  That is, fairness, balance by use of more than one source, blah blah.  But the conditions of a scientific study simply cannot be emulated in journalists, because they cannot set up a "control," a comparable situation without intervening variables (or introducing and testing impact of variables).

    An additional difficulty and difference is that scientists are to recognize and state their assumptions, in the event that their biases could impact results.  As well we know, journalists neither state their assumptions nor do they often admit that they might have them.

    Anyway, long story short, this led to an odd evolution in journalism, when it could not emulate objectivity as a methodology but instead embraced it as an ideology, an ethic and even the basis of a belief system in the field.  And if you think through the differences between methodologies and ideologies . . . well, that's how I see the mess.  The mess that they are in, so instructed and inculcated in an ideology that isn't one.  And the mess we are in as a country with our reliance on such a dysfunctional field and group.

    Class dismissed.:-)

    Parent

    Yeah ... I've heard that ... (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by Robot Porter on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 11:04:15 PM EST
    but the way I was taught was to strive to avoid subjectivity by remaining factual.

    One of the examples I remember from a journalism class is you never write "it was a beautiful day," because that is subjective.  Instead, you list factual aspects of the weather, i.e. temp, winds, people's clothing, etc.  And let the reader intuit the nature of the day.

    The only way to insert subjective ideas into a story is through direct quotes.

    The AP used to follow these rules fairly rigorously.  But in the last decade or so, they've completely dropped them.

    Parent

    Factual, of course -- but (none / 0) (#147)
    by Cream City on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:55:07 AM EST
    that hardly suffices to prevent subjectivity.  "All the facts that fit to print"?  Not all the facts that could be out there, all the facts from others' perspectives?  There 'tis.

    Parent
    Perhaps now you will turn your (none / 0) (#62)
    by oculus on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 09:34:04 PM EST
    attention to unnamed sources.  Here is the NYT public editor discussing a study he commissioned:

    NYT

    Parent

    I despise the practice (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by Cream City on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:53:34 AM EST
    of unnamed sources.  When I taught journalism, I taught against the textbooks on that.  I took students through the reason for the rise in it -- Watergate -- and told them that unless the story rose to that level of significance to the country, no unnamed sources.  Of course, as soon as they got in newsrooms, I'm sure their editors laughed off what their fuddy-duddy prof said.

    We can do only so much.:-)

    Btw, we all might be more concerned with what stumped, absolutely stumped, journalism teachers two decades ago: a noted decline in journalism students' curiousity, especially evident in how few followed the news.  That would be the generation on our TVs and in charge in newsrooms today.  Food for thought.

    Parent

    Who, what, where, when, why, how... (5.00 / 1) (#144)
    by jackyt on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:27:47 AM EST
    Like we all learned in grade school, the five Ws and and one H form the substance of legitimate reportage.

    The instant I read "admitted" substituted for "said" or "confirmed", and "denied" rather than "refuted" or "disagreed", I become suspicious of a reporter's bias and the article's content. Emotionally loaded words have absolutely no place in the News; I want the facts, just the facts.

    And then we have columnists and commentators who are presumably tops in their field presenting opinions in the form of facts... I just throw up my hands and jump back in my skeptic tank!

    Parent

    Again, that's a methodology (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by Cream City on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 01:00:33 AM EST
    and only a formula for filling in the blanks of a news story.  I note that there now is a computer program that does so, with template news stories for students to just fill in names, places, dates, etc.

    Necessary but not sufficient for real reporting.

    As for the verb changes you note, yes, the rise in connotative rather than denotative verbs is indicative of larger problems in the field.  But that's really not new from reporters.  What it signifies is the decline in copy editors, as that is where we were taught that ought to be caught.  Ut's from cost-cutting in the industry as well as technological changes -- computers have cut out several levels of editors, essentially.  

    Parent

    Here the daily paper fired the copy editors (none / 0) (#163)
    by jackyt on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 09:30:55 AM EST
    the day their first computers were installed in Spring 1977. It's been downhill ever since.

    Parent
    And my dad was the last of the (none / 0) (#165)
    by Cream City on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 10:07:17 AM EST
    rewrite men (and they all were men :-) at his paper -- in 1977.  He said that the onset of computerization meant that five checkpoints on copy, five editors, was reduced to one checkpoint even then.  I'm sure that my dad's retirement and the decline of newspapering ever since were entirely coincidental, of course. :-)

    Parent
    KO should be fired (5.00 / 5) (#18)
    by NYCDem11 on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 08:20:43 PM EST
    Had Olbermann insinuated that Senator Obama be taken to a back room and snuffed out, he'd have been swiftly fired. It's offensive that Olbermann is on the air.

    It is not only offensive (none / 0) (#152)
    by Amiss on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 01:46:04 AM EST
    It should be criminal, along with Tweety and a few others, but MSNBC is by far the worst of the lot.

    Parent
    "Shame" is an emotion that must get (5.00 / 6) (#20)
    by Anne on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 08:20:53 PM EST
    brainwashed out in the orientation sessions that people entering the media get, which is why it is a total waste of time expecting to ever see it.

    Opportunism is what it's all about.  The corporate bottom line is what it's all about.  Not offending the entire web of corporate connections is what it's all about.

    And it isn't even about facts and truth anymore - it's all opinion.  It's transcription media - what I like to call "post-factual."

    It's about book deals for members of the media - which is where you find out all the stuff they knew, but never told the public about.

    It's about the cocktail parties and access and their mistaken belief that we care whether the powerful regard them as friends, or that they breathe rarefied air they think we mere mortals can only envy from afar, through our TV screens.

    It's about the powerful knowing that what the media want more than anything is to be in the in crowd.  One of the cool.  It's so much more important than asking the hard questions and remembering that we don't care who makes their legs tingle, but who sets off alarm bells.

    Keith Olbermann comports himself as if he is a truth-teller of the first order, but this primary season has revealed him, and many of his peers, as opportunistic cowards who do not know the first thing about courage or character.

    Makes me glad I don't have cable.

    You never said it (5.00 / 0) (#27)
    by Prabhata on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 08:34:09 PM EST
    because you're a nice lady who wouldn't speak badly of anyone, even if it's true. But Olberman crossed the line too many times and now is a caricature of a reporter.

    Are they journalists? (5.00 / 2) (#32)
    by santarita on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 08:47:38 PM EST
    Keith, Chris, Wolf, etc.?  Maybe they carry a union card that says they are.  But do they do more than read off the newswires and then  provide their opinions?  I suppose if you really want to find out what the inside the beltway crowd thinks so that you don't have to do any thinking for yourself, they provide a service.  

    All three of them (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by lilburro on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 09:28:24 PM EST
    could just as easily do The Price is Right.  

    Unfortunately, many major bloggers are about as useful.  

    At this point, all the biased rabid coverage is in the short term useful.  Our opponents are after all the Republicans.  But our secondary opponents are fellow Democrats, without the guts to support pro-healthcare, pro-gay, pro-choice legislation.  Without the guts to shake things up.  Obama will only become more centrist as this campaign goes on, more unity shtick about some core values.  

    I guess we'll see what happens.  It will be great to see more Dems in Congress, but if they have to get there by holding practically Republican views and distancing themselves from Obama, I wonder how malleable they'll be.

    Parent

    Young Blonde Shame Spiral Watch isn't journalism (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by Ellie on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 09:30:43 PM EST
    It doesn't even qualify as entertainment, as spin, as infotainment or as humor.

    KO's gleeful obsession with this category even lowers the bar for shameless hackery.

    Parent

    Has anyone mentioned (5.00 / 8) (#33)
    by Coldblue on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 08:48:37 PM EST
    that Olbermann is a shameless hack?

    with mostly bobble-heads guests (5.00 / 5) (#49)
    by bjorn on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 09:22:41 PM EST
    who are only allowed to agree with him

    Parent
    Why sweat it? (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by zyx on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 08:57:15 PM EST
    There are stories published regularly these days about Keith Olbermann being a lousy journalist--the words vary, but the technical term, I believe, is "shameless hack".

    Just enter his name in google news and poke around--a fair number on the first few screens are about KO being a nutter.  Various sources, various authors.  

    He's traded integrity for something else, and he'll never get integrity back.

    Keith Olbermann is a pompous blowhard. I am (5.00 / 3) (#37)
    by carmel on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 08:57:16 PM EST
    still waiting for him to apologize to Geraldine Ferraro for his shameless and unjustified, embarrassing to the journalism profession, rant against her and he included Hillary too. I refuse to watch him because I think he will have an unhappy ending just like in the 1980's movie "Scanners".

    I say (5.00 / 3) (#39)
    by janarchy on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 09:02:55 PM EST
    KO is shameless. Hack, not necessarily. There was a time where I foolishly believed he had some integrity and cared about what he was talking about. However, he has become a corporate shill, a bloviating mouthpiece and a complete parody of himself. Not to mention he's just the same as Bill-O and the other talking heads on Fox that he claims to be morally superior to.

    Hypocrisy, thy name is Olbermann.

    On Editing (IMO) (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by clapclappointpoint on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 09:10:07 PM EST
    Though it is your prerogative to edit your blog as you wish, I think a more transparent response to the situation would be to add an "UPDATED" addendum to post clarifying that authorship of the content.  Merely "disappearing" the post makes it appear as though it never happened.

    Though the words themselves are not yours, Armando posts here at your pleasure.  His writing is tacitly endorsed unless explicitly rejected (although the disclaimer at the end of his posts may soften that argument).  The same, to a lesser degree, can be said of your comments section, which you prune as you feel necessary.

    Anyways, I just feel that an update with an explicit rejection of the sentiment, rather than leaving a gaping linked-to hole, would be more transparent.

    Although the words that are not hers (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by pie on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 09:15:30 PM EST
    were attributed to her, you think she should do what?

    Pfffft.

    Parent

    Because of the mercurial (1.00 / 0) (#64)
    by clapclappointpoint on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 09:39:44 PM EST
    nature of blogs and the ease with which they may be changed, I think that the best policy is to preserve posts in their original state as much as possible (in order to remain transparent).  You can always add an "update" addendum to clarify a post, account for mistakes or include a new idea (imo).

    Now, BTD posts here at Jeralyn's pleasure but doesn't share every view with her.  I'd assign her responsibility for the content similar to that of an editor.  If he posts something she finds offensive, it will soon vanish, but he retains the right to publish content with which they merely disagree.  The same could be said about the commenters (to a lesser degree) but BTD's position of authority (as blog co-author).  Unless otherwise rejected, I'd argue that BTD's posts are tacitly endorsed by Jeralyn (but BTD writes "my opinion only" on most of posts nowadays, so I think things are a little fuzzier).

    Now, in this case, other bloggers assigned some content to Jeralyn that she didn't write and doesn't disagree with.  A simple bolded "I didn't write this, BTD did" would be more transparent simplying erasing the post.  I'm sure if she contacted the bloggers that referred her (unless they were big jerks), they would similarly update their posts (rather than simply erasing them).

    Comment policies can be very tricky due to the same arguments about tacit endorsement of content.

    Parent

    Typo (1.00 / 0) (#66)
    by clapclappointpoint on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 09:41:13 PM EST
    she doesn't agree with the content assigned to her.

    Parent
    It's not that I reject (5.00 / 2) (#133)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 11:12:56 PM EST
    the sentiment, it's that I don't talk or write that way and it didn't say TalkLeft said it, it said I did. That's not acceptable to me.

    You are right, I could go back and add "Update by BTD deleted." But it was a thread on another subject, the PA primary, and that would make it seem as if he did something wrong. For now, I'll leave it as is.

    Parent

    Olbermann (5.00 / 0) (#43)
    by cannondaddy on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 09:16:21 PM EST
    I enjoy Countdown, but I do not consider it a news show.  The Daily Show has more integrity than Countdown.  Keith Olbermann should stick to that show and not be "anchoring" for MSNBC.

    He's not a hack... (5.00 / 3) (#44)
    by Alec82 on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 09:16:56 PM EST
    ...just a talking head.  A liberal (and hence more entertaining) talking head, but still a talking head.

     CNN, MSNBC, FOX (more egregious, but still), etc.   These are not "news" channels.  "News" requires more than shallow spin analysis.  

     I have never been much of a fan of any of these networks.  I force myself to listen to right wing radio every once in a while just to get a sense of what the crazy right is thinking, much in the same way I visit freerepublic.  I view the major networks as opportunities for the faux reform crowd to pay lip service to their laundry list of trivial complaints. Oh, and to tout their new books.

     

    It's not liberal (5.00 / 3) (#97)
    by BackFromOhio on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 10:37:01 PM EST
    to attack female public figures in the shameless way he does simply because he prefers another candidate.  It's not liberal to say he'd like to take a female candidate in a room and ....
    It's not liberal to slime people for the sake of your ego, ratings, network profits or whatever.
    It's not liberal to promote the notion that people who do not agree with you should not exercise their first amendment rights.


    Parent
    Liberal? (5.00 / 3) (#129)
    by SamJohnson on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 11:05:02 PM EST
    The progressive blogosphere seems to have merely forgiven or conveniently ignored the sexism and misogynistic rage of  Edward R. Murrow analog wannabees like Keith Olberman, Jeffrey Toobin, Cenk Uygur, Rush Limbaugh, Jamal Simmons, Chris Matthews, etc as it suited their particular mission or time slot ratings. Since we know it is virtually impossible to demonstrate that misogyny or sexism is in any way race or age based - McCain, for example, has not refrained from being a vile sexist spewer himself - I guess it's safe to say that sexism and misogyny just did not actually take place ever during the entire primary process, or even ever before that. But the case should be made that it's not the shameless sexist partisan hackery of the media or political operatives and opportunists that degrade and debases women, girls, men and boys, but those who recognize it and say something about it. It's just like guns killing people, right?

    Parent
    Let me ask you this: (none / 0) (#107)
    by Alec82 on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 10:45:14 PM EST
    Why do you care about him?

    I despise FOX News, I think they are responsible for helping undermine our democracy.  I also think that corporatist media is horrible.  

     And I don't watch them or listen to them.  They're on my cable plan, and every once in a while I watch, but it isn't news, I only do it to see what the talking heads are screaming about.

     If you are getting your news from the talking heads, there are deeper issues at play.  Yeah, he has personality flaws (the RFK thing was ridiculous), but he is a sensationalist.  What more do you honestly expect from these networks?

     

    Parent

    I agree (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by BackFromOhio on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 10:59:27 PM EST
    I don't watch Olbermann any more, but someone referred to him a "liberal" -- I was responding to that statement.

    Parent
    Oh that was me... (none / 0) (#134)
    by Alec82 on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 11:14:18 PM EST
    ...I think he's a liberal by corporatist standards, at least.  More importantly, though, he's a sensationalist.  Which explains his rhetorical excesses.  Some of which I am not familiar with, obviously, because I hadn't heard of the "take Clinton into a room" comment. At least not that I remember.

    Parent
    Well he may think of himself that way... (none / 0) (#60)
    by Alec82 on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 09:31:54 PM EST
    ...but he isn't.  He is an advocate, not an analyst. This was true even before the primary season.

    Parent
    An advocate for what? (none / 0) (#154)
    by MichaelGale on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 05:12:31 AM EST
    Not a Democrat (5.00 / 5) (#65)
    by Valhalla on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 09:40:14 PM EST
    but a provocateur, now.

    The ridicule owed him is the same as what I heard when Fox came out with it's 'Fair and Balanced' ads/meme.  He's not a news reporter.

    I think for a long while folks who are liberal were just happy to have our own ranter/screamer/biased guy.  Heavens knows we heard enough conservative ones.  But that doesn't make him a journalist, and especially not one in the Edward R. Murrow mold.

    Sensationalism sells (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by Alec82 on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 09:48:32 PM EST
    That's what the networks are teaching us.  Or what we're teaching the networks, you could say.  

     People don't want news and analysis.  If they did they would watch PBS or listen to NPR.  I know, I know, I've heard the argument about "liberal" bias, but the fact that reality has a liberal bias isn't my problem.

     Slowly but surely they're devolving into The McLaughlin Group.

    Parent

    Well, there was Aaron Brown (5.00 / 2) (#102)
    by BackFromOhio on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 10:41:36 PM EST
    Not a hellfire & brimstone type, but a stalwart let's try to stick to the fact type.

    Where did he go after CNN?  I never understood why CBS did not bring him in to try to revive its failing evening news.

    Parent

    He's a professor at ASU in Tempe, AZ (5.00 / 2) (#120)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 10:53:46 PM EST
    However, he has just been given a show on PBS. Not sure when it's going to debut.

    He started his career in Seattle as the local anchor on the CBS affiliate. He was as hard right as you can get. I remember him once mentioning the stupid democrats and shaking his head in disgust, as only he can.

    He has since moved more left.

    When he was anchoring in Seattle, my mother reminded me that I had gone to kindergarten with him in Hopkins, MN.


    Parent

    But he is a shameless hack. (5.00 / 5) (#67)
    by masslib on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 09:42:12 PM EST
    Speaking for me only.

    Methinks the lady doth protest (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by oculus on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 09:56:05 PM EST
    too much and the remedy is to request a correction.

    Hah (none / 0) (#119)
    by squeaky on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 10:53:12 PM EST
    Took me a while.....Good one

    Parent
    I appreciate (5.00 / 5) (#73)
    by cal1942 on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 10:00:23 PM EST
    the general prohibition regarding 'name calling.'  However, there are those times when only colorful desciptors are appropriate.

    Keith Olbermann's over the top criticism of and shamelessly slanted reporting of Hilary Clinton was beyond the pale.

    It seems appropriate that Keith Olbermann does not deserve the normal constraints of dignity.

    So, no account, beer track, bread and butter Democrat me takes satisfaction in calling Olbermann a shameless, irreconcilable hack.

    On this one I'm with BTD.

    Shameless Hackery (5.00 / 1) (#151)
    by SamJohnson on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 01:21:38 AM EST

    Yes, buried in one of the NYTimes' pieces today was some paragraph about a new element of the threat to the Obama campaign of things going virulent online. They even discussed getting coaches for Michelle Obama if the campaign decides she will be campaigning as much as she did during the primaries. Ironic how such things are now a concern after the relentless unloading of bile and enraged bloviating in relation to anything Clinton for far more than 17 months.

    Keith Olberman is a shameless hack regardless of what he or anyone else thinks he is supposed to be doing, or what he gets paid to do. I don't expect an epiphany or natural disaster to turn him into anything resembling a fourth estate paragon, do you?

    What remains to be seen is whether the media feels like it has been given permission by DNC leaders - who couldn't possibly have spoken out about anything like the sexist and other pathological crap being aimed at the Clinton family without appearing to actually stand on principles or for something like defending another Democrat - to erupt into non-stop shameless hackery regarding Obama.

    Not a peep yet about Jesse Jackson Jr (n.b. shameless thuggery is an apple and shameless hackery is week old chum, no analogies possible) who proclaimed the Bible should have a new Chapter on Obama added to it, but I think they are saving that owner's son trying to run the store for July doldrums week.

    My contention is that they are just waiting for the ad buys to come in before the onslaught. But maybe I just think that because I was told I was voting for the 50 state strategy before I was told I was voted out of having relevance to the Democratic Party.

    Hey, it's hard being over 45 out here on the streets. And poverty and working class issues are just not things that I am Keith Olberman shameless hack will ever get enraged about, are they? Or Obama's new stance on Iran at AIPAC. Iran and anti-war purity was only important when Hillary was being tried for the high crime of war mongering based on a noun.

    Oh, that's right. She actually lost the nomination because of her vote for the IWR. I forgot. You'll understand when you reach 46 and wake up reading religious texts. I find myself  praying that a new chapter is not added to the Bible. And that God will forgive me for the new sin of wanting Democrats not to act exactly like Republicans.

    Parent

    He Is An Entertainer (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by squeaky on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 10:01:43 PM EST
    It can be entertaining if he is on your side. I don't have a tee vee but have watched clips of his on C&L. When he was dishing Bush I did find it entertaining, but his Obamania infused news, aka dishing Hillary, is repulsive and booring.

    Olbermann was ok at the beginning of the primary.. (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by sallywally on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 10:04:04 PM EST
    He did do the Shuster apology.....also, he played the clip of Obama saying that he would get Clinton's voters if he were the nominee, but he didn't know if Clinton would get his voters. Olbermann asked his resident news guy, "Is that a threat?!" The news guy played it down, but that was where this stuff started about the candidates' supporters not voting for the other candidate if s/he were the nominee.

    Sometime very soon after that he was all man crush on Obama.

    Does anyone know why Rachel Maddow made that same turn? I thought she was really well-based in her opinions until the whole of Air America and MSNBC went head over heels for Obama.

    BTW, I will be voting for Obama. But I won't take down my Clinton sign in the yard quite yet...we have signs for both in the yard and both signs will stay for now.

    Right. Obama was against the war from day one. (5.00 / 3) (#86)
    by Marco21 on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 10:25:51 PM EST
    Sure.

    Do his fans have google? Bill Clinton was right about his Iraq position being a fairytale and they painted him a racist because of it.

    Parent

    LOL (5.00 / 3) (#87)
    by Edgar08 on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 10:28:36 PM EST
    There are morons in this world who still think Clinton voted for the bankruptcy bill, too!

    Every single time some moron talked about how a DLC centrist was for Bush's tax cuts I went to DLC.org and found 5 papers about how the tax cuts should be rescinded.  That's just a fact.  I don't care about the DLC, I never even heard about them until people started lying about them and simply asking myself:  Is that true?  I think I'll find out for myself!

    There is really apparently a group of Dems who agree with Karl Rove that Dems are responsible for the war.  And a group of Dems who don't agree with Karl Rove on that point.

    It might divide the party.

    Parent

    Those "morons" would be correct (none / 0) (#157)
    by Rojas on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 06:46:26 AM EST
    check it yourself

    S.420
    Title: An original bill to amend title 11, United States Code, and for other purposes.
    Clinton (D-NY), Yea

    S.256
    Title: A bill to amend title 11 of the United States Code, and for other purposes.
    Clinton (D-NY), Not Voting

    As to the topic, I think we would be hard pressed to find a dozen so-called jornalist that rise to a level abouve hackery in the major news networks these days.

    Parent

    I believe that Edgar08 was referring (none / 0) (#158)
    by Inky on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 07:34:15 AM EST
    to the 2004 Bankruptcy bill that passed, and not the far less onerous 2001 Bankruptcy bill that did not pass (a bill in which she also voted for amendments that added consumer protections). You may want to read up on the history of the two bills.

    Link

    In fact, Hillary Clinton was the sole Senator not voting on the bill. This was pointed out incriminatingly by Jackson Williams at the Huffington post.

    Speaking of profiles in courage, the bankruptcy bill passed the senate by a vote of 74-25. You'll notice that adds up to 99 senators. So who happened to be the one senator absent that day? Why, Hillary Clinton, the wife of the man who twice vetoed that turkey

    But in fact it was also clarified by Elizabeth Warren in the PBS interview cited above:

    WARREN: Mrs. Clinton, in a much more secure position--as Senator a couple of years later--when the bill came up once again---Senator Clinton was not there---the day of the vote. It was the day that President Clinton, you may remember, had heart surgery. But she issued a very strong press release condemning the bill and I assume if she had been there that she would have voted against it.

    From Senator Clinton's official statement on the bill:

    This bankruptcy bill fundamentally fails to accord with the traditional purposes of bankruptcy, which recognize that we are all better off when hard-working people who have suffered financial catastrophe get a "fresh start" and a second chance to become productive and contributing members of society. With the passage of this legislation, which makes obtaining this fresh start more expensive and more difficult, we are ensuring that many responsible Americans will continue to be buried under mountains of debt, and unable to take back control and responsibility for their lives.

    In the days before S.256 was finally brought to the floor Senator Clinton voted for every amendment which would have added consumer protections to the bankruptcy bill. Amendments which were repeatedly rejected by both the Republican majority and far too many Democrats. She even voted against cloture in an attempt to keep the final bill from coming to a vote at all.

    So those "morons" -- generally speaking -- were indeed morons.


    Parent

    Generally speaking (none / 0) (#162)
    by Rojas on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 08:36:07 AM EST
    It's moronic to pitch the 2001 bill as "far less onerous" than the bill that Bill vetoed (to Hill's credit according to Warren and others) and the 2004 bill that passed.
    They were all heavily weighted against the individuals to eliminate accountability for the banking industry.
    Warren's PBS interview provides some insight on Hill's change of heart. It's worth a read.
     

    Parent
    Perhaps I shouldn't have said ... (none / 0) (#164)
    by Inky on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 10:01:32 AM EST
    "far" less onerous, but it was less onerous than the 2005 bill. And if you knew about the history ofthe 2005 bill, you shouldn't have simply indicated that she did not vote for it, but also noted how hard she worked to defeat it and the reason why she wasn't there to vote on it. I'm not saying you were being "moronic" -- but you certainly were being misleading.

    Parent
    I have a cracker jacks box. (5.00 / 4) (#95)
    by davnee on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 10:36:13 PM EST
    Would you like the prize?  It sounds like you really want one.  You could wave it around and yell "na na na na" at all the Clinton Dems.  Maybe a secret Obama decoder ring that only worthy Dems can use to decipher the way to the White House?  Or how about some magic beans?  You'll probably need them in order to conjure a single progressive policy in an Obama administration.  You do realize that you and all the other anti-war saints are now under the Obama bus with the rest of us?  You've been used for what you're worth.  It's on to an undivided Jerusalem and an endless commitment in Iraq for your Precious.  Oh yeah and Republican-lite health care reform and right wing talking points on reproductive rights too.

    Parent
    Is this... (5.00 / 4) (#78)
    by Jackson Hunter on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 10:11:07 PM EST
    "Is this snark?" ;)

    Seriously though, I love this place, but if Obama supporters like those on Kos and MyDD start coming over here and demanding retractions/apologies, they're not getting one from me.  In fact, they can kiss the fattest part of my *ss to be honest.  And I'll flame them so d*mn badly that their Great Great Great Great Grandkids will need burn salve just to feel human.  I'll be banned, but I'll have my dignity, which is something they lost long ago in their hypnotized state.

    Sen. Obama may get my vote, but he has to convince me, not through fear of the Regressives but through a positive set of actual proposals instead of vague sloganeering about "Hope" and "Change".  Sorry, but I'm an actual adult who has seen a few elections, so pap will not cut it for me.  You see, if he wins, we will be his boss, not the other way around.  He is supposed to serve our interests, and not his own.  During this Primary Season, he has only cared about himself, using the vile, bloody hands of tools like Russert (and I can't wait to see Obama's face when The Great Pumpkin does a 180 on him, it'll be so rich that it will have to be fattening) to tear our party in half.  It is now HIS job to put Humpty Dumpty back together again, not mine, since I'm nothing but a stupid racist hick.

    Olbermann lost all credibility with his RFK crap and the coordination of it with the Obama campaign.  If he actually believed what he was spewing out of that smirking sewer, then he is breathtakingly stupid.  If not, then he is fundamentally dishonest.  Niether is acceptable to me.  "Hack" is a nice four-letter word to describe him.  H*ll, it's a freakin' mash note.

    Jackson

    What are you saying? (5.00 / 2) (#80)
    by Esme on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 10:17:44 PM EST
    That we should condone his despicable brand of "journalism" just because he is on our side? That we should be happy if the MSM continues its role as propoganda central, if it's our propoganda?

    Do you even realize what you are saying? We can't throw out our principles just because the people who are abusing them are on our side. Doing so, is hypocritcal. This is exactly why so many people were mad about the Florida/Michigan debacle. Democrats will now never be able to cry foul if Republicans steal votes, because they did the same thing.

    Right??? (5.00 / 0) (#100)
    by RalphB on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 10:39:59 PM EST
    If only Keith Olberman had done a special comment, we would never have invaded Iraq.  I don't know which is more repellent, your lack of principles or your irrational anger.


    Parent
    What are you fighting for? (5.00 / 2) (#118)
    by Esme on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 10:52:20 PM EST
    Isn't your candidate about change and hope? About a new kind of politics? A post-partisan America where we all do what's right and rise above the dirty tricks? I thought that's what your movement is about.

    Maybe you're right. Maybe I am a rosy-eyed, kool-aid sipping dreamer who believes that if a legal election takes place, the votes should be counted; who believes that one candidate cannot steal another candidates votes, and who believes that the we shouldn't enable talking heads in their destruction of rational thinking in America. ButI'd rather be someone like that, than someone who wins at all costs, no matter the principles that are thrown out.

    Parent

    Have you even read the (none / 0) (#121)
    by BackFromOhio on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 10:54:22 PM EST
    DNC Rules regarding selection of delegates? The Charter?

    Parent
    Sorry (none / 0) (#167)
    by BackFromOhio on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 01:28:37 PM EST
    My comment was not addressed to you!

    Parent
    I don't really think you've been paying attention (5.00 / 4) (#81)
    by andgarden on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 10:19:32 PM EST
    BTD doesn't call him "Obama's O'Reilly" for nothing.

    Facts are shiny things (5.00 / 5) (#85)
    by davnee on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 10:24:43 PM EST
    Try digging a few up in your own sandbox before taking a dump in this one.  Clinton immediately rebuked Ferraro's mild and obscure (and quite accurate) comments.  I'm still waiting for Obama to even so much as acknowledge the racist and sexist bile spewed forth at Clinton from his own spiritual advisors.  Of course he himself likened Clinton to sh!t on his own shoes, so class is obviously not something that comes easy to Obama.  

    And a liberal shill is no better than a conservative shill, at least not if you believe there are principles in life.  If you are just after brute power then that is different.

    Let me guess (5.00 / 2) (#88)
    by RalphB on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 10:29:03 PM EST
    you hate Paul Krugman because he's not sufficiently in the O tank?


    Olbermann and Krugman (5.00 / 6) (#90)
    by otherlisa on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 10:29:55 PM EST
    are not even close to equivalents. Krugman never advocated taking Barack Obama into a dark room and not having him come out. Krugman never attacked Obama's character with bloviating, red-faced "Special Comments"

    Krugman criticized the substance of some of Obama's policy positions.

    You can't tell me this is the same as what Keith Olbermann did.

    Krugman went a little farther than that... (1.00 / 1) (#98)
    by Alec82 on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 10:38:08 PM EST
    ...with his cult of personality remarks.  

    Parent
    I gotta tell you (5.00 / 3) (#111)
    by RalphB on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 10:47:32 PM EST
    that, while you don't seem to be a member, there is what looks like a cult of personality out there.  I don't know how else to explain some of the messianic language.

    While my daughter isn't smitten, some of her friends are in a whole other zone.  It's quite bizarre.


    Parent

    Yep (5.00 / 2) (#124)
    by otherlisa on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 11:00:20 PM EST
    Remember that early Sac. Bee article, entitled "Obama Basic Training"? This was published back in January. Very interesting to look at it now.

    Parent
    Wow I had forgotten (5.00 / 2) (#127)
    by RalphB on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 11:03:37 PM EST
    about that article.  It's even spookier now.

    Parent
    Yipe! (5.00 / 1) (#153)
    by creeper on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 04:09:51 AM EST
    I hadn't seen that Sacramento Bee article.  It made my blood run cold.

    Thanks for the link.

    Parent

    I dunno.... (none / 0) (#130)
    by Alec82 on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 11:06:25 PM EST
    ...I guess it just doesn't seem bizarre after Bill Clinton, another "rock star" president who inspired young people.  Of course, he moderated himself.  So we'll see.

     To the extent that they do harbor messianic visions of an Obama presidency, they'll sober up during his first term.  

     

    Parent

    We'll never know, I guess. (5.00 / 3) (#96)
    by Marco21 on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 10:36:48 PM EST
    So many "progressives" went silent on sexism, it was/is embarrassing. As long as Hillary is the recipient, it's a-ok.

    Went silent? They never spoke up (5.00 / 2) (#149)
    by Cream City on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 01:04:17 AM EST
    for women's rights much.  Really, the myth that progressives have put priority on women's issues is only that.

    Parent
    18-49 demographic (5.00 / 2) (#99)
    by SoCali on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 10:39:24 PM EST
    KO had the gall to brag about his ratings in the 18-49 group after riding the Obama demographics like a drunken sailor on a cheap hooker.
    I guess that qualifies as a hack.

    I never liked Olbermann (5.00 / 3) (#101)
    by kayla on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 10:40:08 PM EST
    Not even before this primary.  I have never understood the appeal.  The show consists mainly of silly youtube clips, bad comedic rejects giving political "analysis", and commentary on Paris Hilton and American Idol.  And now nightly anti-Hillary rants - that make no sense.  And that weird, pompous, convoluted way he forms a sentence!  

    He's ridiculous.  I can't believe people can even stand the guy.  And his special comments are all just showy rants.  Meh.

    Olbermann's Show has seriously deteriorated (5.00 / 3) (#116)
    by BackFromOhio on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 10:50:49 PM EST
    He used to have Jonathan Turley and John Dean on the show on a regular basis to discuss issues in depth.  I haven't seen Dean lately, and the last time Turley was on, Olbermann tried to put words in his mouth and create a procrustean bed in which Turley was supposed to fit his statements.


    Parent
    Now, that was funny Edgar!! (5.00 / 0) (#103)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 10:42:09 PM EST


    Not as funny as (5.00 / 0) (#108)
    by Edgar08 on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 10:45:19 PM EST
    Numnah.


    Parent
    This post should (5.00 / 0) (#106)
    by BackFromOhio on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 10:44:46 PM EST
    not be here - four letter words, calling other posters names....


    I guess he never bothered me too much... (5.00 / 2) (#115)
    by miwome on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 10:49:32 PM EST
    ...because I never thought of him as a journalist. He's a professional ranter, and while I would certainly prefer that that genre be kept separate from news, I don't see what he's doing as fundamentally different from what goes on on a lot of blogs.

    I suppose the main difference would be doing it on principle rather than on paycheck, but to a degree, the fact that the perspective gets out at all is worth something, I feel.

    None of which is to say that I agree with everything he's ever said. Just as with much of the blogosphere, his approach to Hillary was extremely problematic, and as with any source of opinion pieces (opinion is, in fact, what he does, which is fine if acknowledged--and I think it's pretty obvious), pretty much nobody will agree with or like everything.

    His delivery is generally wayyy over the top. I will certainly agree with that in the "shameless hack" department.

    He wasn't trained for professional ranting (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by Cream City on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 01:06:44 AM EST
    which is part of the problem.

    He was a sports journalist.  They train for horse-races, for knock-down contests in which only one can win -- or, as it were, come out alive -- and the sports journalism field never has had a good rep on separating news from opinion.  Thus, Olbermann.

    Parent

    I'm ashamed to admit (5.00 / 3) (#131)
    by ap in avl on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 11:08:23 PM EST
    that I used to tivo KO religiously.  Yes, I was a fan.  Thought the guy could do no wrong.  

    It was so refreshing to hear someone call bulls**t on the Bush administration.  I have to admit that I thought he was a true patriot and that I loved the "GN & GL" schtick.

    It was early on when no one else had the guts to say such things, I thought.  Maybe that still is true.  But in retrospect I think he was just allowed or encouraged to ride the wave that Stewart/Colbert had started.

    I kept encouraging my friends and family to tune into to KO.  I pestered them relentlessly until they finally did.....only to find him turning his vitriol on one of our own.

    I was horrified.  I had touted the man as someone who spoke "truth to power" (won't use that phrase so cavalierly anymore).  I was faced with a crisis of conscience:  Is this man who I thought he was?  Whose moral compass is off here?

    Being a good Democrat I subjected myself to a protracted period of self-flagellation.  I doubted.  I questioned.  I doubted some more.  Could I not be seeing the evil in this woman that KO sees?  How could I have believed in him?  How could I have believed in her?

    Ultimately, it became clear to me:

    He IS a shameless hack.

    Lesson learned.

    it's not going to happen (5.00 / 2) (#132)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 11:09:47 PM EST


    It was more than that and U know that (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by BarnBabe on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 11:28:09 PM EST
    It was not just supporting his guy, it was attacking the other woman. He made spiteful remarks that reflected on all women. He went from funny to cruel. Even the other day he could not stop from making stupid comments. And BTW, since you are new, we have been after this guy for months now so we are not throwing him under the bus for your reason stated.  

    then i'll say it for you: (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by cpinva on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 11:39:13 PM EST
    keith olberman has turned into a transparently shameless hack.

    there now, i feel better already.

    Keith Olbermann gives shameless hacks a bad name (5.00 / 3) (#139)
    by DandyTIger on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 11:49:27 PM EST
    There, someone had to say it. And apparently from reading these comments so far, I'm not just speaking for me. :-)

    Man, KO is quite a piece of work. I actually think he is worse than O'Reilly. I looked up shameless hack in the dictionary and there was a picture of KO. I looked up journalism in the dictionary and it had a picture of KO with a caption "not this". Badumbum. I'll be here all week. :-)

    Name-calling is like swift-boating. (5.00 / 1) (#156)
    by lizpolaris on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 06:38:12 AM EST
    In order to swift-boat someone, you have to first make up a lie, and then apply it.

    In order to call someone a name, you have to find some inaccurate label, and then apply it.

    If you're simply identifying a subject, then it can't be name calling.  If you see a rod-shaped metal object with a bowl-like end which you use to eat cereal, it's called a spoon.  The spoon won't be surprised or insulted by this.

    If you see a TV personality making personal statements which have no basis in fact, declaring standards of conduct which strangely apply only to one person, and revising historical facts without a trace of embarrassment or correction, he or she is called a shameless hack.  The shameless hack shouldn't be surprise or insulted - it's a role he's chosen for himself.

    Not the worst on TV, but... (5.00 / 1) (#166)
    by rockinrocknroll on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 11:26:03 AM EST
    Keith Olbermann is, indeed, a shameless hack.

    It is not because he did not (4.87 / 8) (#59)
    by bjorn on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 09:30:58 PM EST
    support Clinton, it is because he SUPPORTED a candidate, any candidate.  If he is a newsman he is supposed to be reporting the news, not promoting the candidacy of someone.  He was campaign central for Obama, taking the lead, per his orders, on the RFK comments. Keith is interested in making the news not reporting it.  So take your condescending crap somewhere else!

    Yeah... (2.00 / 1) (#56)
    by Alec82 on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 09:29:33 PM EST
    ...the Krugman episode was a sad one.  I voiced my disagreement with him on his blog, but I still believe Krugman will have a prominent position in an Obama administration.  As he should.

    Olberman is Brilliant (2.00 / 2) (#58)
    by Spike on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 09:30:47 PM EST
    He certainly isn't a journalist in the conventional sense. But as an antidote to Fox News, he has been wonderful. While I don't fully subscribe to every opinion, he has been a loud voice expressing opinions that have been heard too infrequently in the age of Bush.

    He is not an antidote to FOX News (5.00 / 5) (#61)
    by bjorn on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 09:32:15 PM EST
    He is FOX news, because there is no difference between what he does and what they do.

    Parent
    Except Fox gets better ratings (5.00 / 3) (#70)
    by davnee on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 09:55:54 PM EST
    Keith is a Bill O'Relly wannabe.  He won't ever admit it but it's true.  He can whine and spit and bloviate all he wants, but he'll never even be in the same league as Mr. Fair and Balanced.  And it's a pretty sorry league at that.  

    Parent
    Really? (1.50 / 2) (#72)
    by Spike on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 09:58:03 PM EST
    No difference between Olberman and Fox News? So Fox News has done hard hitting editorial pieces on warantless wiretapping? Or torture? Or Katrina? Or many, many other things? If it weren't for Olberman, such points of view would have been totally absent from television.

    Parent
    Olbermann is an idiot (5.00 / 4) (#63)
    by lilburro on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 09:36:40 PM EST
    his attacks on Hillary Clinton this year have been ridiculous.  His comment about Clinton "going in a room and having only one come out" was damaging to her, damaging to him, and damaging to this party.  Does Fox News do that to its own?

    Parent
    KO had a "gimmick" and it (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by zfran on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 10:20:05 PM EST
    turned into a competition w/Billo and the joke caught on and he continued. Now, he thinks he is a serious journalist whose head is so swelled, he does not want to introduce Dan Abrams show after his. I thought Dan Abrams became his boss at one time, but I could be mistaken.

    Parent
    To Clinton supporters upset about the lack of (2.00 / 2) (#89)
    by RosieScenario on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 10:29:05 PM EST
    of prominent Democrats defending Senator Clinton against sexist comments from Olbermann and others in the media:

    I have to think that Senators Feinstein and McCaskill and Schumer and Chairman Dean would have been perfectly willing to go on MTP, etc. and express their disgust with the sexist comments about Hillary, IF the Clinton campaign wanted them to.  

    I'm sure they would have said yes to a request (even if they were Obama supporters, as is Sen. McCaskill).  Maybe someone even called up the Clinton campaign and suggested it.

    I'm wondering if the Clinton campaign discouraged such efforts due to not wanting to "appear weak"  (not that I buy that theory, but it seems to be important).  Or, maybe they did not want to shine a spotlight on the disgusting comments, on the theory it was better to ignore them.

    Just my speculation here.  As far as I know, the Clinton campaign has not addressed this topic of whether prominent Democrats could/should/wanted to defend her.

    Frankly, that's off-topic (5.00 / 2) (#91)
    by andgarden on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 10:32:35 PM EST
    and really just a shot in the dark.

    Parent
    Why should someone have to ask (5.00 / 4) (#94)
    by RalphB on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 10:34:54 PM EST
    Democrats to denounce misogyny in the media?  Or for that matter in the Obama campaign?  Did Obama ask that those people raise hell about supposed racist comments?  

    Parent
    Politicians try to coordinate these things (2.00 / 2) (#113)
    by RosieScenario on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 10:48:58 PM EST
    I don't think Hillary should have had to ask.  But I think that Feinstein et al. WOULD ask the campaign before making publc statements about it.  I think they would not want to do something, if Hillary's campaign preferred they refrain.

    Parent
    David Gergen yesterday on some (5.00 / 3) (#104)
    by zfran on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 10:44:10 PM EST
    CNN show asked if Hillary "lost" because of sexism. The woman panelist from the Independent Women's Forum said in part yes. When further questioned, she went on about the sexism. Gergen in the end said, and so, she didn't lose because of sexism. I guess that's that!!!!The news media was supposed to ask questions, remember Woodward and Bernstein (where is Wooward), now it appears it's all tabloid journalism.

    Parent
    No (5.00 / 2) (#105)
    by Edgar08 on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 10:44:24 PM EST
    They didn't exploit sexism the way the Obama campaign exploited racism.

    I think they made a conscious decision not to and it's up to the horserace pundits to decide whether or not that was a good strategy or not.


    Parent

    In an editorial cartoon today (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by zfran on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 10:47:49 PM EST
    there was a very young aa boy who was asking his mother, "when I grow up can I become president" and her answer was "why, yes you can!" What happened to the transracial race Obama was running and the media was lauding. It is now about a black man becoming president. Another "change" Obama can answer "present" to.

    Parent
    Panel on CNN today (5.00 / 4) (#122)
    by RalphB on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 10:57:36 PM EST
    and Gergen said it sent a message to the world that we nominated a black man for president.  Other journalists were saying that since Obama was nominated we could do away with affirmative action since it obviously wasn't needed anymore.  This race has been anything but post-racial IMHO.

    Parent
    It's amazing (none / 0) (#3)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 07:59:34 PM EST
    they must have a 24/7 watch on the left blogs to catch that one time BTD added something with a personal twist to it.

    Jeralyn, are you still looking for music? I posted this on an earlier thread, but it got buried between conversations.

    Judy Collins


    Music suggestions are (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 08:04:17 PM EST
    always welcome. Speaking of Judy Collins, last night I was searching for a good version of "Love the One You're With" ("If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with") by Stephen Stills. I couldn't find one, either by him or with CS& N. I like that better than "Send in the Clowns."

    (for younger readers, Stephen Stills and Judy Collins were a couple at one time, think "Suite Judy Blue Eyes.)

    So yes, just put suggestions in open threads.

    Parent

    Are you going to give us (none / 0) (#69)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 09:53:12 PM EST
    an Open Thread soon?

    Parent
    I loved Olbermann in the 90's (none / 0) (#24)
    by BarnBabe on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 08:27:39 PM EST
    He defended Bill to the bitter end. I always enjoyed his having Joe Wilson, John Dean, and Craig Crawford. It was like you got to the truth of the matter. But he changed a lot over that Schulster incident. He had to make the MSNBC apology and it stuck within him and now we have an example of a bitter person and out for revenge.

    I have a feeling that 'other' blogs will be watching Talk Left closely to see if the tone has changed as a Obama 08 site. IF Hillary is on the ticket then I will get in that line. Until then I am just patiently waiting for Obama to do the right thing. All about judgment and leadership. I didn't want her for 2nd place but it might be the only way to win in the GE and also to have some sense and sensibility in the WH. I like Jane Austin too.

    I think TL will be a model site for (none / 0) (#25)
    by MarkL on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 08:29:47 PM EST
    Obama supporters, just as it was the flagship site for Clinton supporters.

    Parent
    Right............... (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by BarnBabe on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 08:33:52 PM EST
    I can not see TL becoming like the other 'O' sites. I count on it to be fair as it always has been and today you have to admit, we talked issues. Enjoyed your take on them. Heh.

    Parent
    I think you're wrong, (none / 0) (#28)
    by oculus on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 08:40:20 PM EST
    You think the Obama campaign is (none / 0) (#41)
    by MarkL on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 09:10:28 PM EST
    going to link to Kos?!
    Don't they want to get as far away as possible from the Obama  blogs of the primaries?

    Parent
    Guess I'd best request you define (5.00 / 0) (#46)
    by oculus on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 09:18:15 PM EST
    "model site."


    Parent
    battle of ovic's? (none / 0) (#45)
    by Joan in VA on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 09:18:02 PM EST


    I wish I could say what I really think (none / 0) (#52)
    by bjorn on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 09:25:17 PM EST
    about Olbermann, but I have way to much respect for Jeralyn and TL.

    Somewhere... (none / 0) (#110)
    by Alec82 on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 10:47:25 PM EST
    ...William Randolph Hearst is laughing at all of us.

    Now trhat guy (5.00 / 5) (#117)
    by RalphB on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 10:52:04 PM EST
    could sell a war.  I'm sure he'd approve of the current media climate.

    Parent
    I thought I heard that too (none / 0) (#160)
    by ccpup on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 07:42:56 AM EST
    but he was remarking on the similarity of their last names (Ivanovic and Yankovic) and saying it was the Battle of the ...vics"

    Just because you didn't say it ... (none / 0) (#161)
    by Redshoes on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 08:07:42 AM EST
    says more about your standards than his.  

    To paraphrase KO re: Samantha Power (none / 0) (#168)
    by angie on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 03:07:03 PM EST
    calling Hillary a monster: If it is true, it isn't slander.