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Monday Night Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 08:54:25 PM EST
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No Olympics for me tonight, I'm watching Weeds, which has been excellent this season.

Here's an open thread, all topics welcome, just keep it civil and free of personal attacks.

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    Monday Night Open Thread | 113 comments (113 topical)

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    Position Statement (5.00 / 4) (#2)
    by Upstart Crow on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 09:02:57 PM EST
    The past few days have brought out more and more differences I have with many of the bloggers here. I won't be voting for Obama -- and I'm not a PUMA holding out for Hillary, either. I wouldn't want her to run at this point; she's not the DNC janitor -- or Obama's janitor, as far as VP.

    Why do I stay? Why do I come back to TL?

    It's simple. I no longer trust the MSM to give me the news.  Whenever I read something that looks funny, I come to TL and watch you guys hash it out here. This (and, frankly, a review of the rightwing press or a view from the other side), gives me a better idea of "what's happening" than the Washington Post, the NY Times, MSNBC, ABC, NBC, CNN or, God forbid, the Huffington Post.

    Sad times, innit?

    This post really bugged me and just figured out (5.00 / 7) (#30)
    by Valhalla on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 10:00:27 PM EST
    why.  This is one of several posts today that have started out with 'I'm not a PUMA, but...'.

    It's ringing all the echoes I have of listening for years to women (mostly younger but not entirely) who start their sentences 'I'm not a feminist, but...'.  Which of course, drives me up the wall, because it's letting yourself be defined by essentially anti-feminist narrators and narratives.

    I am not arguing that the two are equivalent, or that that is what you are saying.  But it's an echo and it's really bothersome.

    Almost the only time people feel the need to say 'I'm not a blah, but ...' is when either they have some reason to feel the people they are talking to will misinformedly associate them with blah, or because blah is such a generally accepted  horror/evil/negative thing to be that no one would ever want be a part of blah.  Absolution by preemption.

    Say what you need to say.  If others assume you're a PUMA and they think it's a bad thing, that's on them.  If you are a PUMA, say that (except for not violating site rules on organizing).  Scr*w what other people think.  Let your opinions define the thing that you're labeled with, not the other way around.

    I stopped beginning a lot of my comments about how well the Republicans play the game with 'I'm not voting for McCain, but...'  Because otherwise it's letting others define me as somehow Republican (and less legitimate in my arguments), if I say anything about them whatsoever.  People can address my comments, but forget the whole deal with having to prove my bona fides based on what people wish I was so they could blow off my statements based on association rather than because my statements are weak, or silly, or they have a good contra argument.  Again, scr*w that.

    Upstart -- my apologies, you weren't even addressing anything remotely like what I'm talking about, and again, not suggesting you are doing this or not doing this or anything particular to you.  It was just that one phrase in your comment that coalesced all this in my head.  I beg your indulgence.

    Parent

    You have it. (none / 0) (#91)
    by Upstart Crow on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 11:29:23 PM EST
    I understand your point, and I think your right.

    Parent
    So you're holding out for some... (none / 0) (#6)
    by Addison on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 09:09:16 PM EST
    ...non-Obama, non-McCain solution to this November's election?

    Parent
    Hello?! (none / 0) (#31)
    by Addison on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 10:05:59 PM EST


    Parent
    I just read on another site that the Obama (none / 0) (#22)
    by hairspray on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 09:36:37 PM EST
    campaign is quietly replacing Hillary delegates with Obama delegates so as to make the roll count look more favorable to Obama. In Kentucky for example, the excuse was that they were going for gender balance so they were switching a male Hillary supporter for a female Obama supporter.  Now that is a real hoot.  Different reasons in other places.  Very depressing.

    Parent
    And how does Obama replace (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by DemForever on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 09:59:06 PM EST
    Hillary's delegates?  Cmon now.

    Parent
    It's the DNC that has been firmly planted (none / 0) (#38)
    by PssttCmere08 on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 10:13:52 PM EST
    in you know what part of obama's anatomy.

    Parent
    A nonanswer (none / 0) (#40)
    by DemForever on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 10:18:43 PM EST
    Obama has not power to replace a Hillary delegate

    Parent
    What non-answer...the DNC is doing it (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by PssttCmere08 on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 10:30:07 PM EST


    Parent
    This is no time to trust the DNC, or the (5.00 / 2) (#99)
    by JavaCityPal on Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 12:20:50 AM EST
    democracy you thought existed in the democratic party. There is no logical explanation for the outcome of the primary.

    Planting delegates has been in the news since the selection process started. My first recollection of major delegate tampering was in CA.


    Parent

    Or buying them! Some of the Supers decided on (none / 0) (#110)
    by DeborahNC on Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 02:24:01 AM EST
    Obama AFTER he donated to their PACS or campaigns. (I forget which, but there was money involved.

    Parent
    Bring up the link in #36 (none / 0) (#96)
    by hairspray on Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 12:12:33 AM EST


    Parent
    The underhandedness never ends...but (5.00 / 5) (#36)
    by PssttCmere08 on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 10:11:58 PM EST
    Kentucky is fighting back...

    link

    Parent

    This explains why Clinton's nomination (5.00 / 6) (#57)
    by Cream City on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 10:40:14 PM EST
    at the convention finally was approved.

    Delegate switches.  And the appeal is to the DNC.

    Solzhenitsyn would have been the one to write about this.

    Parent

    There is no argument that can be made to (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by JavaCityPal on Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 12:16:58 AM EST
    convince me we would be okay with this guy as the president.


    Parent
    I'm glad some people aren't rolling over, but are (none / 0) (#111)
    by DeborahNC on Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 02:34:48 AM EST
    speaking out against this type of furtive conduct.

    I wonder who is directly responsible for this deplorable behavior. Dean, Brazile, Pelosi? Or all of the above and more.

    This is outrageous!

    Parent

    hmmn (none / 0) (#114)
    by sociallybanned on Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 03:53:25 AM EST
    That was something I learned at the caucus.  We all were wondering why the delegates were split differently in on congressional district vs. our (6th district).  If I can remember correctly, it's based on ratio (men/women) in your district.  I'm glad it wasn't in my district.  I'd sent a message to be forward on to my fellow Clinton supporters about PUMA.  I was surprise a few didn't view my thoughts.  Some of them were old school feminists.

    During the caucus, we were extremely picky and had gotten together to discuss who we thought wouldn't switch their vote in Denver.  We voted according to who we felt would stick to Hilary.  I was shocked these long time feminist didn't know about Emily's list.  

    OK, Im sleepy at work... I just checked and Hon. Ruth Palumbo is a pleo for Clinton.  I've been out of touch with the election b/c of the Olympics and frankly, I just want to sit back and watch to see what happens.

    Parent

    you meanin that entire state (5.00 / 2) (#49)
    by TimNCGuy on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 10:33:42 PM EST
    they couldn't find a female Clinton supporter?

    Remind me again, how many points did she win by here and they ran out of female supporters?

    Parent

    p.s. I forgot the most important part! (5.00 / 7) (#3)
    by Upstart Crow on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 09:04:30 PM EST
    Thank you, BTD and Jeralyn. We don't always see eye to eye, but sometimes I feel that this site has saved my sanity this election cycle.

    I know the feeling (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by mogal on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 09:06:19 PM EST


    Parent
    Me too (5.00 / 4) (#14)
    by Jjc2008 on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 09:28:46 PM EST
    I have been blogging, commenting since 2005.......and this is one of the few sites left where I feel I can give my opinion, rant or whatever without being insulted or threatened.

    Today one jerk on another blog actually commented to me "I should know better than trying to knock sense into milkshake-thick heads"........
    Why does anyone think they have the right to knock anything into anyone's head?   Yes, I know it is an "expression" but it is one that is borne out of violence toward women and children. I was lucky enough to have been raised by a father who did not believe in hitting.......
    and at the same time it was a time when a husband threatening his wife was considered humorous entertainment.  A lot of mixed messages in the world when I was little as I saw women who were hit, demeaned, and isolated  but stayed because they had no choices.
    So when I see some of the anger on these blogs....coming out of the mouths of young people, I get discouraged.  I thought things had changed.  

    Parent

    Word! (5.00 / 5) (#27)
    by Little Fish on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 09:48:32 PM EST
    I've recently lifted my self-imposed ban on other left-leaning sites and I'm sorry to see that the level of discourse has not improved much if at all since the primary. In fact I was over at [unnamed website} and the level of maturity was somewhere around junior high-ish, if that. I waded through 3 pages of smears in search of intelligent discussion before I gave up. It kind of feels like freerepublic, but from the left. It's quite the turn-off.

    So cheers to TL! The threads are always intelligent and thought-provoking and tightly moderated. I appreciate that.

    Parent

    Show TL and Jeralyn some LOVI (5.00 / 3) (#55)
    by txpolitico67 on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 10:37:55 PM EST
    Make a donation!  I am tooooNYTE!

    Thanks JM for allowing me to be cranky and putting me in check when I get outta hand.  I let my passions get the best of me but thanks to the great moderation we call agree to disagree...as progressives and thinkers SHOULD!

    Now, will you please ask BTD to let me comment on his threads again?  lol

    -Angelo

    Parent

    Thank you upstart (5.00 / 5) (#33)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 10:09:10 PM EST
    and others who voiced similar sentiments. We appreciate you readers too!

    Parent
    the only thing I can (5.00 / 3) (#13)
    by bjorn on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 09:27:59 PM EST
    watch on MSNBC these days is there afternoon show on the Olympics.  Otherwise, I just can't bare it.  It just drives me nuts and it is not worth it.  

    Oh yea (5.00 / 5) (#17)
    by Jjc2008 on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 09:30:41 PM EST
    I can't even imagine watching Olberman ever again.  What an arrogant jerk. And Rachel.....huge, huge huge disappointment and sadness.  
    She is one of the MSNBC folks now and she is clearly not the person I thought she was.

    Ditto (5.00 / 0) (#18)
    by CST on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 09:32:32 PM EST
    I had good cable for the first season and not since.  It has been very hard not getting my "fix".  From the two episodes I have seen this season, it looks awesome.

    Has anyone (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 09:33:33 PM EST
    else seen the video from Move on about how the election is going to be won. There are some good points in there but it's also beyond clueless on some points. For example, they are touting Obama's energy plan but ignoring the fact that he voted for the Bush/Cheney plan? It would seem that if you want to deal with reality you would put putting up Obama's flaws and how to deal with them rather than pretending he doesn't have any or papering over them.

    You sound like............ (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Maria Garcia on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 09:34:29 PM EST
    .............you're looking forward to it.

    comment was deleted for (none / 0) (#26)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 09:43:16 PM EST
    having urls that skewed the site. Urls must be in html format or comments get deleted.

    Parent
    My bad. (none / 0) (#43)
    by ran scot on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 10:24:33 PM EST
    Noted.

    And it wasn't a smear, it was just some hypothetical thinking.

    If I wanted to smear the guy, I would talk about his trail of tears in Arizona.

    Parent

    Heh (5.00 / 3) (#21)
    by CST on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 09:35:53 PM EST
    I am no McCain fan but even I would not go this far.  A lot of people take sleep meds, it is a legal drug.  I suspect he has very real reasons to need help sleeping.  Posts like this are unhelpful and only turn people off.  There is enough to worry about with McCain in his right mind, no need for you to go into this territory.

    Agree. This is smeary, Obot (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by Valhalla on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 09:40:14 PM EST
    territory.

    If you have something reasoned and intelligent to say anti-McCain, and heavens knows there's plenty to choose from, then say it.

    Parent

    Ambien (2.00 / 0) (#44)
    by byteb on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 10:24:45 PM EST
    I do think McCain taking Ambien is worrisome. Not because he's taking sleep medication but because some ppl taking Ambien have made phone calls, drove cars and/or eaten with no memory of having engaged in those activities later. It's atypical but some physicians/psychiatrists have opted to write scripts for Lunesta in order to avoid any chance of the above incidents.


    Parent
    Be sure to mention your concern (5.00 / 3) (#84)
    by Joan in VA on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 11:20:13 PM EST
    to the Obama campaign so they can float it and provide him with yet another opportunity to mention his POW years and how he has recurring nightmares due to being tortured. Can't get enough of that story. <s>

    Parent
    rotlmao (5.00 / 2) (#90)
    by Valhalla on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 11:27:09 PM EST
    LOL, that was priceless.

    Parent
    Most people don't want to hear about it. (3.00 / 2) (#51)
    by ran scot on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 10:34:32 PM EST
    But hey, when President McCain is found at a Taco Bell drive-thru dressed in all leather with a piece of ice cream stuck to his forehead, they can't say we didn't warn them.

    Parent
    Yeah, 'cuz the President (5.00 / 4) (#74)
    by Valhalla on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 11:08:04 PM EST
    is alone soooooo much.  It's not like the prez is at the very least guarded 24/7 by a highly trained force sworn to protect his life...oh wait, he is.

    Sorry, your comments were a smear.  McCain takes Ambien = McCain will sleepnuke the world.

    Obama's a smoker -- nicotine agitates you = Obama will nicnuke the world.

    See how that works?

    Either learn to play the smear game as well as the Republicans do, or get out of the game.  Knock off the amateur hour stuff.

    Parent

    Be careful for what you wish for. (none / 0) (#92)
    by ran scot on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 11:35:23 PM EST
    I'm socialist, just might break out the French Situationist movement on you.

    And knock off the amateur hour stuff? Are y'all getting paid to comment? If so, someone needs a rebate.

    And if you don't see the difference between a nicotine fit and use of sedative/hypnotics, then who is really being naive?

    I bet a President is guarded 24/7 like you said he is. Otherwise one might have never asked what "is" is.

    Now am I smearing like a Republican? A liberal socialist would really like to know.

    Parent

    Now THAT (none / 0) (#65)
    by CST on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 10:50:53 PM EST
    is a mental image I could live without.  The ice-cream and taco bell was fine, but the all-leather... eeewwwwww...

    Parent
    everyone takes Ambien (none / 0) (#60)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 10:42:53 PM EST
    Colin Powell said so. More here and here.

    Parent
    The sleep walking, eating, etc (1.00 / 0) (#89)
    by byteb on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 11:25:59 PM EST
    are atypical but real...especially when ppl take other meds or drink before taking it. Caveat emptor.

    I think everyone would be better off with Lunesta especially if they might be getting that middle of the night 3 a.m. phone call. :)

    Unfortunately, there are some major insurance companies really pushing Ambien and requiring Doctors to jump through hoops in order to write scripts for other sleeping pills.

    Parent

    Ambien is a horrible drug (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by JavaCityPal on Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 12:35:45 AM EST
     

    Parent
    If he's been taking it for awhile (none / 0) (#63)
    by nycstray on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 10:47:58 PM EST
    wouldn't they know how it effects him? It's not like he doesn't have people around him 24/7. I'm sure if there was a problem, it would have been addressed with his doctors

    Parent
    Ummmm ... (none / 0) (#93)
    by Jane in CA on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 11:46:53 PM EST
    You left a pretty pertinent fact out of your story - I did a fair amount of research on this subject because my MD prescribed ambien to me at one time - and in every single instance of "sleepwalking, driving, eating, etc" associated with ambien, alcohol was involved as well.  The warning label clearly states that alcohol is to be avoided in combination with this medication.

    Just saying ...

    Parent

    Hmmmm (none / 0) (#107)
    by JavaCityPal on Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 12:56:53 AM EST
    Nearly the entire floor of patients when my dad had open heart surgery were given Ambien. The hospital staff was so overwhelmed by having to calm that many patients from their hallucinations they had to call family members back to the hospital in the middle of the night to assist them in getting the patients back under control.

    No alcohol involved.

    They sent more of that dreadful drug home with my dad, and the hallucinations were even worse the second round...he fell and hurt himself.

    Parent

    Were they on other medications? (none / 0) (#108)
    by nycstray on Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 02:08:10 AM EST
     

    Parent
    Those pesky privacy laws prevented (none / 0) (#109)
    by JavaCityPal on Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 02:22:46 AM EST
    the medical staff from sharing that information.

    I have no idea, but I'm pretty sure they weren't all on the same meds.

    Parent

    The reason I ask is because (none / 0) (#112)
    by nycstray on Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 02:54:26 AM EST
    of how they pass things with "approved levels" and other BS. And it's based on av body weight etc. It took me years to figure out why I reacted strongly to OTC drugs and such. I don't weigh enough. I'm not an "Adult". I figured this out by taking an adult dose of a drug and felt like my blood was on fire along with other unpleasant effects. Yeah, there's a duh factor there, but read the packages, they don't mention weight. And then there's the habit they have of approving levels. They may have some warnings initially, but the expanded warnings come after they have mass distribution and have used us as test subjects. That's when the true test of how they mix with life in the real world is exposed.

    My dad has Parkinson's, and some of the "new" drugs they had him on were just horrible. In phone conversations, I was afraid he had Alzheimer's also. My mom got him back on the tried and true meds and he was back to my dad so fast! Scared the crap outta me when he couldn't have a decent football conversation with me, or talk about anything in the recent past. I got the names of the meds and did some research. Damn glad he's off them.

    Parent

    Good Question (none / 0) (#122)
    by Jane in CA on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:08:14 AM EST
    I've never heard of hallucinations being associated with ambien, but I have heard very frequently of morphine causing truly terrifying hallucinations. My guess would be that morphine is the culprit in those hospital cases.

    OTOH, I once took an ambien after not eating all day, and I swear I started seeing "colors and patterns" while reading in bed ... it was actually rather pleasant except I fell asleep before I could fully appreciate the phenomenon :)

    Parent

    Yes and No CST.... (none / 0) (#118)
    by kdog on Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 09:51:51 AM EST
    Sure, McCain has the right to medicate himself as he sees fit and it's nobodies business unless it effects his work.  

    That being said, McCain advocates for others to be locked up and fined over their choice in sleep aid.  So f*ck him and his self-righteous pill poppin' arse:)

    Parent

    Yea (none / 0) (#119)
    by CST on Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 09:55:58 AM EST
    But the parent post (which was deleted for urls) was a fear-mongering "he's gonna take ambien and hallucinate and accidently nuke iran" type of post.  Now, I am a little worried about him intentionally nuking iran, but that's another issue.

    I completely agree with your second paragraph.

    Parent

    Figured... (none / 0) (#120)
    by kdog on Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 10:05:49 AM EST
    the parent comment was missing.

    Point taken...If McCain nukes a country, it won't be on accident:)

    Parent

    Interesting Article (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by CST on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 09:53:50 PM EST
    On perceptions of Americans in Britian

    Most impressive stat (to me), 58% think polygamy is legal in some parts of the USA

    I mean, wow.  I also think the comments on the bottom are insightful.  From my own personal experience abroad, the one that bugs me the most is how Europeans think Americans are very racist.  I remember sitting in a classroom in Germany getting bombarded with this and just thinking, pot, meet kettle... and then some.  It is certainly no picnic over there for minorities.  Just ask the muslims...

    Another interesting racial anecdote, my friend, who is black, always talks about how "enlightened" England is on racial issues.  When I met his uncle, who lives in London, he talked about how much better the US is.  I guess the grass really is always greener...

    Oh yea (5.00 / 2) (#73)
    by CST on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 11:07:34 PM EST
    Although I didn't meet any Jews in Germany... imagine that...

    My sister works at an English language school for international students.  She combats racism on a daily and very real basis (parents complaining about black host families, etc...).  One thing that has recently come up, she has a ton of Turkish students now, and almost every single one of them thinks that "there were no Jews in the world trade center" and a large number of her other European students agree with that statement.  Scary.

    Parent

    Rendell to vote for Hillary on first ballot (5.00 / 3) (#35)
    by Valhalla on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 10:10:47 PM EST
    link

    disclaimer:  I have no idea how credible this site is.

    So... (5.00 / 7) (#37)
    by OrangeFur on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 10:13:36 PM EST
    ... I read that a Democratic ward leader whose first name is "Dallas" asked Obama a challenging question about the Iraq war and FISA. His response, before getting into the specifics, was that the questioner was "feisty" but that he liked that.

    Quick quiz question: What gender is the questioner?

    How did I know before watching the CNN video that the questioner is female? Does anybody ever call a man "feisty"? Or "spunky"? Or "Sweetie"? Aren't these all somewhat condescending and belittling?

    YES, they are and that is why he uses (5.00 / 5) (#41)
    by PssttCmere08 on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 10:20:36 PM EST
    the words, whether consciously or unconsciously.  It appears obama has a problem with women imo.

    Parent
    Not sure if anyone's interested (5.00 / 3) (#39)
    by flyerhawk on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 10:14:28 PM EST
    but for anyone who liked Buffy, Joss Whedon has a web film out starring Neil Patrick Harris.  

    It's called Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog.  It is very witty and the music is quite catchy.

    It is broken into 3 parts, each one roughly 15 minutes in length.  

    Well worth watching if you haven't yet.

    Thanks flyerhawk....I was a huge Buffy and (5.00 / 2) (#42)
    by PssttCmere08 on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 10:21:16 PM EST
    Angel fan...will check it out.

    Parent
    GIGANTIC (5.00 / 2) (#58)
    by txpolitico67 on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 10:42:29 PM EST
    BTVS and Angel fan.  I mourned forever when they ended.  I miss Willow and Cordelia.  I missy Buffy and Xander.  Don't get me started on Faith and Angel....

    Parent
    You forgot (none / 0) (#64)
    by CST on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 10:48:07 PM EST
    Spike.  He was my all-time favorite character on Buffy.  I LOVED that show.  TV hasn't been the same since.  Although maybe I'd feel different if I had Showtime and could watch Weeds...

    Parent
    Spike lost me (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by txpolitico67 on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 10:57:04 PM EST
    with the attempted rape scene.  Damn that was WAY too disturbing.  I can take the stakings and the stabbings and the eviscerations, but to see my girl in THAT scene was tough.

    Parent
    I loved that scene (5.00 / 2) (#81)
    by Valhalla on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 11:12:36 PM EST
    Well, actually, it was horrifying.  But I love that Joss was willing to take the story to that kind of extreme.  It sparked one of best discussions I ever participated in on the Buffy philosophy board.

    But then, I dig the tortured, complicated characters and the big effing questions about evil and redemption and all that.

    Sigh.  Buffy was the best.

    Parent

    The year BTVS ended (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by txpolitico67 on Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 12:47:51 AM EST
    Rolling Stone has SMG on the cover before the finale.  I have it.  There was a quote that resonated with me to this day in the article:

    "Buffy and the rest of the Scooby Gang are too smart for Bush's America."

    That was 2005 and I was like right the freak on!!!

    Parent

    The actor showed up on "Torchwood" as (none / 0) (#71)
    by Rhouse on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 10:57:18 PM EST
    an adversary / love interest of the hero, Captain Jack Harkness, so no need for slash fic.

    Parent
    Torchwood is another favorite and they (none / 0) (#76)
    by PssttCmere08 on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 11:09:51 PM EST
    show man on man kissing that most other shows...Jack is a playa :)  

    Xander can be found on Criminal Minds as a computer specialist/love interest of Garcia.

    Parent

    lol....make that they show more man on (none / 0) (#79)
    by PssttCmere08 on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 11:11:07 PM EST
    man kissing than most other shows...YIKES!

    Parent
    If you can't get it, it will be out on DVD (none / 0) (#50)
    by Rhouse on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 10:33:51 PM EST
    with lots o' goodies.  The site also has it's own blogs, as well as a costume thread.  Me, I want a Nathan Fillion autographed hammer  or a tee-shirt.

    Parent
    HELLO Nathan Fillion (none / 0) (#53)
    by Little Fish on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 10:37:24 PM EST
    I ♥ the Fillion.

    Now I need to go watch Serenity.

    Parent

    Then go see Dr. Horrible's Sing Along (none / 0) (#62)
    by Rhouse on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 10:47:14 PM EST
    Blog, he's great in it and has a decent singing voice and  a twisted mind.

    Parent
    He does a fabulous job with his (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by Valhalla on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 11:14:48 PM EST
    character.  A friend of mine, who has always disliked Neal Patrick Harris, has now appropriated him as her Hollywood Boyfriend and graciously told me I could have Nathan, lol.  I'm totally cool with that!

    Parent
    Neal Patrick Harris (none / 0) (#102)
    by JavaCityPal on Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 12:41:07 AM EST
    became my favorite sitcom actor with his role on "How I Met Your Mother". I saw a clip of something he was doing musically recently...

    He does really fun interviews, too. Very witty guy.


    Parent

    Jeralyn, they just a had spot one of the local (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by Rhouse on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 10:26:26 PM EST
    news (CBS3 - Philly) that said they're offering free haircuts and salon treatments to the homeless so they look nice for the convention delegates and the national news readers.  I didn't catch whose paying for this, would you know?
    Also let me add mine and my spouses' voice to those thanking all of you for this site, and I'll be sending money (hint-hint)by the end of this week.
    Lastly, we don't get Showtime so I just watch "The Middleman" at 10 on a Monday night.
    They are also sending them to movies (5.00 / 2) (#54)
    by Joan in VA on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 10:37:31 PM EST
    so they won't be on the streets. I don't know who's footing the bill.

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    lmao at Palomino....good one! (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by PssttCmere08 on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 11:11:42 PM EST


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    Makes perfect sense (none / 0) (#106)
    by JavaCityPal on Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 12:52:12 AM EST
    Obama and the DNC are not elitists. They said so.


    Parent
    So the ultimate hilarity is around the corner. (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by ran scot on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 10:32:36 PM EST
    If Obama takes Biden as VP, then the transfiguration of progressive to wall street stalwart is complete!

    Obama, who comically ran as a progressive in the primaries with the following top five contributors:

    Goldman Sachs     $627,730
    University of California     $523,120
    JPMorgan Chase & Co     $398,021
    Citigroup Inc     $393,899
    UBS AG     $378,400

    is going to take the Senator from Delaware, which is a pirate port for corporations.

    Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't Progressivism historically advocating for the advancement of workers' rights? To help the average citizen against the large corporations and monopolies which are Obama and Biden's backers?

    Oh man, is there some buyer's remorse set for later this week, or what?

    Because the dude has already been bought!

    We're Watching the Olympics (5.00 / 2) (#52)
    by creeper on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 10:36:08 PM EST
    ...with increasing sadness.  We have seen several US athletes denied the scores they earned and it has occurred to me that our Olympians are paying the price for the arrogance the United States has shown to the rest of the world for the past eight years.

    What a tragedy that these dedicated people are the ones penalized for the execrable behavior of George W. Bush and Dick Cheney.  

    I've noticed their scores seem to (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by Joan in VA on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 10:42:48 PM EST
    mostly go to their Chinese competitors so it may not necessarily be our government that's to blame. Interesting conjecture either way.

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    I am officially irritated with the scoring in (5.00 / 3) (#56)
    by Anne on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 10:38:22 PM EST
    the women's gymnastics competition...it's just not right.  Liukin clearly had the better routine, with fewer errors, and yet, once again, errors are overlooked or ignored and higher scores awarded to the Chinese.  Kind of a repeat of the Chinese girl who landed on her knees in the vault last night getting a higher score than the Americans who landed clean.

    But...at the same time, I know from when my daughter was horse-showing, that it's impossible to have completely objective scoring.  Time and again we would go to shows and see riders getting pinned who had made obvious errors, while those who rode better were overlooked.  It sometimes made winning less satisfying when she knew it was more due to the fact that the judge liked her horse than how she rode.

    Just gotta suck it up, I guess, but it's hard to see.

    but, certainly in this particular (none / 0) (#61)
    by TimNCGuy on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 10:44:16 PM EST
    situation they should be able to review the tapes and ask each judge to point out where they deducted for each error in each athlete's routine.  If it is as clear as the commenters say, the judges won't be able to point to deductions for all the errors made by the Chinese athlete if she had MORE obvious errors than the American.  It seems to me that it should be easy to verify.

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    A prayer to the blogosphere (5.00 / 2) (#69)
    by coigue on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 10:56:50 PM EST
    please let it be Clinton.

    I was watching that "faith" show... (5.00 / 4) (#72)
    by lentinel on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 10:59:33 PM EST
    It really was a drag.
    First of all, who is that guy who was doing the questioning - and why did he get the gig? He is some pastor or reverend or other. That became obvious. But here he is asking the candidates for president of the United States to talk about Jesus. Jesus!

    I wanted to like Obama. He would start to talk, and then I would feel that he was about to say something... and then it would piddle out to nothingness. I listened to him and I still don't know where he stands on anything.

    On the war - he said it was a tough decision. For many of us - including everybody I know - it was a no-brainer. What b.s. we were being fed. He implied that it took some courage to be against the Iraq war - and that it was during his senate campaign -or the beginnings thereof -and some warned him of negative political consequences ... but that didn't ring true to me. His speech in 2002 was well before his run for the Senate.
    Nobody heard about it. He was nowhere to be seen during the demonstrations held to try to prevent the war.

    Then he talked about Jesus. What did he think about Jesus? He said that "Jesus died for my sins". It sounded like mumbo-jumbo. What does that mean? As far as I can tell, Jesus died because he spoke truth to power - and was killed for it. Not an unfamiliar story.

    About abortion - he said that he thought that women gave the matter serious thought. But what if they didn't? The thing that he couldn't or didn't say is that this is all happening in a woman's body. No matter what one thinks about when life begins and morality and the rest - it is all happening in a woman's body. She has a right to choose what happens therein. If this were happening in a man's body, it would not even be a question. We wouldn't be discussing it.

    I kept thinking that this guy is way smarter than McCain - but it didn't add up to anything. Starts and stops.

    I finally had to turn off the repeat broadcast - on CNN's website.
    I didn't feel I was getting anywhere.

    How about a Rabbi getting a shot at these guys?

    you had the same thoughts (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by TimNCGuy on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 11:25:42 PM EST
    as I did about the "when does life begin" question.  It's a good quesiton and all, but what does it really have to do with a woman's right to choose?  They can decide that life begins at ejaculation for all I care and woman should still have a right to choose.  In fact, I think some do believe life (or potential life) begains at ejaculation and therfore they oppose birth control.  How do you discuss anything rationally when someone believes that?  

    Some on the far right go so far as to say you can throw away a fetilized egg, but still can't use it for embryonic stem cell research.  There is no sense to that position.  So, I don't much care about when they think life begins.

    Parent

    I think that it was inappropriate to participate (5.00 / 2) (#100)
    by DeborahNC on Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 12:33:55 AM EST
    in a presidential debate where religion and spirituality were the featured topics of discussion. It sets a very bad precedent, IMO.

    I'm surprised that Obama agreed to participate, because it's a no-win situation for him where the audience is a group of Evangelical Christians. He will never meet their faith-related criteria; and, if he did meet their standards, then he would be turning his back on many Democrats on issues like abortion, stem cell research, Supreme Court choices, etc.

    If I had to guess, I think that he probably participated to clarify lingering questions about the Rev. Wright debacle and questions by some that he is (or has been) a Muslim.

    Whatever his rationale, I don't think that it helped him at all with the right-wing Republicans, and as in your case, it probably turned off or even offended some Democrats. Bottom line--it was not a judicious decision, IMO.

    I didn't watch it, but my husband told me about it and he thought that Obama did okay given the circumstances. Nevertheless, I still think that a Christian, faith-based forum is not relevant to electing our president.

    The issue can become even more complicated when one considers that having a faith-related discussion that focuses solely on Christianity will necessarily exclude US citizens with different religious affiliations.

    Parent

    In addition, many folks who are agnostics or (5.00 / 2) (#103)
    by DeborahNC on Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 12:41:22 AM EST
    atheists will undoubtedly disapprove and/or be offended by the whole topic.

    Electing a president should not involve a discussion of the candidates' religious positions. For those who want to consider such issues, then they can do that on a personal level.

    Parent

    Minister and writer... (none / 0) (#75)
    by kredwyn on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 11:08:11 PM EST
    He wrote that book The Purpose Driven Life.

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    I heard that.... (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by JavaCityPal on Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 12:46:40 AM EST
    and I've heard some interesting people rave about that book. I accidently bought it on CD several years ago (someone recommended). I got through about 8 minutes and gave it to an acquaintence who I knew would appreciate all that religious talk. I can only take so much.

    Parent
    I've never been able to get into (none / 0) (#121)
    by kredwyn on Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 10:46:55 AM EST
    books along the "how to live a better life" lines.

    I bought one of the last lecture books for my dad. But they are both physics types, so I figured he'd understand it. He told me that it's a kind of tradition in physics to hold "Last Lectures" like Feyman's and so forth.

    Parent

    Tim Kaine's eyebrow was featured (5.00 / 2) (#77)
    by Joan in VA on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 11:10:23 PM EST
    on NPR and I also saw a video entitled "The People's Eyebrow" today. Both funny. Though you may not agree with him, and I don't much, he really seems like a decent guy and the mocking and criticism he's receiving is forcing me to defend him. This is the Obama supporters mistake with Hillary-they created PUMA because they just couldn't stop insulting her. Everyone knows the psychological behavior involved but they don't see it or don't want to see it.

    Defending Kaine... (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by kredwyn on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 11:17:44 PM EST
    is about to get a little bit harder:
    RICHMOND, Aug. 18 -- Gov. Timothy M. Kaine warned Monday that he may have to cut spending on schools and transportation this fall because the worsening economy is driving the state's budget into a shortfall that some lawmakers say could top $1 billion.


    Parent
    Oh, I don't feel the need to defend him (none / 0) (#98)
    by Joan in VA on Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 12:19:36 AM EST
    as Governor-just as a person. Though isn't just about every state being affected negatively by the economy?

    Parent
    Yes... (none / 0) (#115)
    by kredwyn on Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 08:29:46 AM EST
    most states have been feeling the crunch since...oh...2002. When I was living in CO, we got hit plenty with the "budget cut" thing.

    But the point is that the person announcing that there will be yet more cuts is...generally speaking...pretty unpopular re: perception. And the fact that "sacred cows" like education, transportation (a nightmare in NOVA), and elder care are going to get hit...in an election year...is not going to go down well.

    Parent

    I knew it! (none / 0) (#5)
    by americanincanada on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 09:07:04 PM EST
    McCain will be naming his VP on August 29th. The day after Obama's big acceptance speech.

    If McCain really had the guts (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by TimNCGuy on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 09:10:14 PM EST
    to try it, he should schedule a news conference for the VP announcement right in the middle of the Obama Rock Concert.  Or, immediately following it.

    Parent
    Naw (5.00 / 0) (#9)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 09:19:22 PM EST
    that's the time for a major foreign policy blow up.

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    what's this? (none / 0) (#15)
    by Valhalla on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 09:28:48 PM EST
    from whence is this info?

    Parent
    Politico and The Page (none / 0) (#78)
    by americanincanada on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 11:10:39 PM EST
    LINK

    The announcement strategy -- provided McCain doesn't change it -- calls for naming the pick early Friday morning to try to suppress Obama's bounce coming out of his convention.

    "You're going to own the weekend," a McCain official said.

    The Republican convention begins the following Monday -- Labor Day -- in St. Paul, Minn.

    Parent

    Ok, but that article didn't provide much to (none / 0) (#86)
    by Valhalla on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 11:22:53 PM EST
    back it up, and said he could also announce his pick sooner.

    Which is kind of like saying McCain will definitely make his VP pick at some point.

    Making his announcement over Labor Day weekend is odd too, so many people are away.  I think LD is likely to kill Obama's bounce on its own.

    But what do I know?  I would bet that Obama would have make his pick prior to a week before the convention.

    Parent

    I thought for sure (none / 0) (#87)
    by americanincanada on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 11:25:39 PM EST
    he would make his pick before now as well.

    McCain however, I have long picked to make his announcement on the heals of Obama's convention speech.

    Parent

    Well, if you have any money on it, (none / 0) (#94)
    by Valhalla on Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 12:07:35 AM EST
    then I hope you're right!

    Parent
    Weeds...is incredible. (none / 0) (#8)
    by Stellaaa on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 09:12:06 PM EST
    So, why does the Tijuana mayor look like Fernando Lamas?  He looks like some old time actor and it's driving me mad.  

    Alejandro Rey maybe....kinda reminds me (none / 0) (#32)
    by PssttCmere08 on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 10:07:23 PM EST
    of him.  This season of Weeds is waaaaaaaaaaaay better than the last one.  Anyone into Brotherhood?

    Parent
    Alejandro Rey was in The Flying Nun (none / 0) (#34)
    by PssttCmere08 on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 10:10:23 PM EST
    and was quite good looking.

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    Yes, he was, and his accent could really (5.00 / 0) (#95)
    by JavaCityPal on Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 12:11:54 AM EST
    give me butterflies :)

    I hope Mary Louise Parker gets the Emmy this year.

    Parent

    I don't like this season as much (none / 0) (#46)
    by Joan in VA on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 10:28:19 PM EST
    as the previous seasons. I think the suburban mom thing worked better-now she's involved with real criminals. Andy's coyote business is pretty funny though.

    Parent
    the intro credits (none / 0) (#113)
    by landjjames on Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 03:01:19 AM EST
    I miss "Little Boxes".  I guess they rang out of singers to perform it.  But I love the new intro titles/credits - they're different every week.  Tonight they used a condom wrapper.  They're quite creative and it's fun to see what they'll do next.

    Parent
    For flashman (none / 0) (#68)
    by kredwyn on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 10:56:03 PM EST
    cause I've been very busy today and didn't get back in time to respond...

    Not equivalent.

    But just because one side is far worse when it comes to a engaging in a fallacious strategy...that does not make it okay for the other side to turn around and use a similar strategy with the old "::shrug:: 'Lookit...we're not as bad as the opposition...'" qualifier tagged onto the end.

    Another Clinton Supporter To Stay Home (none / 0) (#85)
    by WillieB on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 11:20:59 PM EST
    I just saw on the news that Sophie Masloff the former mayor of Pittsburgh and a Hillary supporter will not be attending the convention.  

    No mention of her replacement.

    Health problems were the reason. (She is 91 though)

    Love this season (none / 0) (#116)
    by ruffian on Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 08:53:03 AM EST
    I was ready for a move out of Agrestic.

    Nancy's last scene with Andy last night was so good. MLP is the best, and I love Justin Kirk also.

    My only disappointment is Celia's character. It was starting to be a charicature until last night - the old Celia may be back.

    PUMA (none / 0) (#117)
    by Molly Pitcher on Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 09:10:54 AM EST
    I didn't get around to this on that Puma thread.  BUT--I think the existence of the organization is best explained if you return to the original acronym: Party Unity My A**.  It is not about Hillary so much as it is about leaving a corrupt party.  DNC callers hear me say 'Independent' and keep on talking.  I say 'Puma' and they shut up.  I have  changed my party affiliation to the one that best exemplifies my adherence to the ideals of FDR and HST.  (I was a Truman Democrat.)
    Monday Night Open Thread | 113 comments (113 topical)

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