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Tuesday Morning Open Thread

I just posted a piece at TPM Cafe Book Club on Eric Boehlert's book, "Bloggers on the Bus". The themes will be familiar to regular readers.

I will be writing more this week about a meeting with Bill Clinton I attended yesterday at his Harlem offices. A lot of food for thought was put on the table there.

Finally, please consider donating to Talk Left. If you like what we do, it would be nice if some of Jeralyn's costs could be defrayed. Here is the the paypal link, it's very easy (and takes credit cards even if you don't have a paypal account.)

If you don't like paypal, feel free to pull a few dollars out of your pocket and send it snail mail.

Speaking for me only. This is an Open Thread.

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  • Display: Sort:
    Good piece at TPM. (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by oldpro on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 09:47:31 AM EST
    And...thanks for the reminder to tip Jeralyn for letting us play in her sandbox.

    Give generously (5.00 / 3) (#3)
    by Steve M on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 09:57:48 AM EST
    Word is that some of Jeralyn's co-bloggers are so destitute they cannot even afford a calendar to know what day it is.  Won't you please help?

    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 10:01:30 AM EST
    It was wishful thinking on my part. Hoping it was Wednesday leaving us only 3 days from Saturday,when we had have only 2 working days until Monday.

    Parent
    I wish (none / 0) (#18)
    by CST on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 10:58:36 AM EST
    you were right the first time.

    Parent
    heh, unemployment means (none / 0) (#33)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 11:44:16 AM EST
    the days don't really count... I hope I find something before I have to withdraw my retirement funds...

    I can't wait to read BTDs Clinton interview. I was and am a Clinton follower and supporter. This should be interesting.

    Parent

    further articles, (none / 0) (#38)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 12:09:48 PM EST
    I should say.

    Parent
    I enjoy reading (5.00 / 3) (#17)
    by lilburro on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 10:55:02 AM EST
    Amanda Marcotte...her piece is interesting...her argument is that because Obama kept bloggers at a distance, they are now in a position to better criticize him.  I'm in BTD's camp on this...he got your money without listening to you, so what makes you think he's going to listen to you now?  The blogs have no leverage.  I don't know if she really believes her blog is effective.  Her criticisms I enjoy, but the effectiveness is highly doubtful, especially if she believes what she wrote here.

    some of the blogs... (none / 0) (#34)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 11:55:10 AM EST
    the cheeto colored ones, where I used to contribute-- think that they have influence. But being a nonquestioning follower and/or ATM doesn't give one, or even a whole lot of folks, any influence.

    I can recognize my insignificance. I guess that's why I laugh at self- importance.

    I prefer Cassandras like BTD and (to a lesser extent) Jeralyn.

    If I'm a Cassandra, it's agate type, seven pint, lower case, like the legal notices, lol

    Parent

    Point, not pint, (none / 0) (#35)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 11:56:32 AM EST
    although seven pints does sound pretty good!

    Parent
    I don't know why it would even (none / 0) (#54)
    by ruffian on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 02:22:50 PM EST
    occur to her to feel guilty for critisizing Obama's policies, even if he had not kept his distance.

    There is a very good article by Michael Wolff in Vanity Fair, about the White House's media strategy.  The basic premise is that they play the media without taking credit for playing the media. Their attitude is that right now the MSM needs Obama a lot more than he needs them.
     

    "That Whiteboard ain't going to write itself," Bill Burton reportedly observed about Politico's Whiteboard, a moment-by-moment chronicle of White House activity.

    The left bloggers I read are infinitely less lazy than the MSM, so I don't think the same rules apply...but I'm sure there is a strategy of some sort nonetheless. Bottom line is that BTD is right - organize a critical mass around the issues, not the pols.

    Parent

    The Holocaust Museum shooter's son (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 11:24:22 AM EST
    released this statement (somewhat old, but I didn't see any TL threads about it):
    My father's beliefs have been a constant source of verbal and mental abuse my family has had to suffer with for many years. His views consumed him, and in doing so, not only destroyed his life, but destroyed our family and ruined our lives as well.
    The rest here.

    That was a beautiful and (none / 0) (#30)
    by vml68 on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 11:32:16 AM EST
    eloquent statement.


    Parent
    So (5.00 / 2) (#42)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 12:19:41 PM EST
    do you think the same people who condemn any massacre that might happen in Iran this year, will be for bombing Iran next year?

    of course. (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 12:31:10 PM EST
    idiocy, lunacy, and having multiple faces knows no bounds.

    Parent
    Since the election was stolen (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by MKS on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 12:32:32 PM EST
    we should side with the pro-USA, pro-modern moderates....by bombing them...

    I like that Obama is staying largely on the sidelines.  We took sides in 1953 by overthrowing the government there.  Bad idea.  Let the Iranians govern themselves...If we insert ourselves into the picture by dictating to the Iranians, we become the issue.

    This has happened time and again in Latin America.  Hugo Chavez is in power and a problem in part due to the apparent U.S. support for the failed 2002 coup against him.

    Parent

    You know that for a fact? (none / 0) (#47)
    by Inspector Gadget on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 12:36:01 PM EST
    The election was stolen?

    Iran has agreed to do a recount.

    Any other countries you can think of that have elections stolen?


    Parent

    That is what conservatives say, no? (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by MKS on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 12:44:13 PM EST
    And they also say bomb Iran...

    I think you missed the gist of my comment.

    Parent

    Sorry, I probably did (5.00 / 0) (#52)
    by Inspector Gadget on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 12:54:17 PM EST
    I think when the results (none / 0) (#53)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 12:59:34 PM EST
    show the equivalent of George Bush not only losing but being totally skunked in Crawford TX, I think we can assume something is not exactly right.


    Parent
    Taxation without morals or class.... (none / 0) (#1)
    by kdog on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 09:09:24 AM EST
    More fund-raising the shady extortionist way by a cash-strapped city...this time Toledo.

    With many cities and states incapable of basic math and fiscal responsibility like their federal counterparts...be ready for a shakedown near you.

    I don't really understand (none / 0) (#5)
    by lilburro on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 10:07:57 AM EST
    why the HELP Committee handed the CBO a bill it didn't intend to write (Ezra Klein here).  If the point was to show how important mandates are, they need to push that story more.  Because at the moment the CBO estimate seems like really, really bad press.

    I wonder if (none / 0) (#6)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 10:09:58 AM EST
    the unrest in Iran is going to do anything except be crushed?  I read today that the average age of an Iranian is 17.  

    Ya never know... (none / 0) (#8)
    by kdog on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 10:26:00 AM EST
    I heard it put well on the radio..."it could be another 1979 or another Tianemen Square".  It is the will of the people vs. the will of the state with all the money, weapons, and power....and see who blinks first.

    What would it take to get Americans on the street like that I wonder...how bad would it have to get before we got rebellious to the extent of the Iranians.

    Parent

    Thankfully (none / 0) (#9)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 10:27:29 AM EST
    Iran does not have the ...um, clout... shall we say that China has with the United States.

    Iran might think twice about a massacre....might.

    Parent

    Lets hope so... (none / 0) (#10)
    by kdog on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 10:30:43 AM EST
    but the ruling clerics ain't gonna stop backing their boy no matter what...so if the people don't blink a human rights massacre is what we will likely end up seeing....in chains and cages if not bloodshed.

    Parent
    That is (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 10:40:44 AM EST
    terrible.

    BTW as an aside, Mousavi is no saint himself, has executed his own share of disidents and was Prime Minister during the US Hostage crisis.  

    Link to Time Article

    I, like most, am not sure what to believe.

    Parent

    Good point... (none / 0) (#16)
    by kdog on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 10:54:42 AM EST
    I'm hearing the difference between Mousavi and Ahmadinejad is comparable to the difference between Democrats and Republicans, which isn't much of a difference at all except superficially.  Both were hand-picked by the ruling clerics.

    I tend to think the Iranian people are just pissed in general about their elections being rigged and having no voice...not so much about support for Mousavi as disgust towards their anti-democratic government.

    Parent

    Very possible (none / 0) (#26)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 11:19:24 AM EST
    nt

    Parent
    The fact that (none / 0) (#11)
    by brodie on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 10:37:51 AM EST
    only a selected number of precincts will be recounted is bad news for the Mousavi forces, needless to say.  Looks like a modified limited hangout by the thugs in power, where they hope to wear down the opposition while trying to look reasonable about checking for "irregularities."  

    As for this country, we should have stood up for democracy back in 2000, especially since we still had control of gov't and the theft was  even more overt than in Iran, but, no, "raging moderate" Al Gore, far too uncritical of the five biased robed robbers deciding the outcome for their boy, was either too afraid of the people organizing to protest or he wanted to preserve his establishment standing for another run, or both.  

    As a result of doing nothing, we got 8 yrs of the worst president in history.

    Parent

    Sounds a lot like Florida in 2000 (none / 0) (#48)
    by Inspector Gadget on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 12:37:25 PM EST
    doesn't it?

    Parent
    I was thinking about (none / 0) (#7)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 10:14:09 AM EST
    the inflation discussion yesterday.
    I imagine the penalty is the same for selling an oz of pot for $50 or selling one for $500.  so its pretty easy to see why no one bothers with the cheap stuff any more.


    Obama (none / 0) (#13)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 10:47:46 AM EST
    is blocking access to the White House Visitor list.

    CREW is appalled, of course.

    Link:  Warning, MSNBC

    Even MSNBC says that Obama=Bush on the issue.

    "Transparent government" = Brian Williams and burgers at 5-guys....apparently.

    Anyone esle notice that (none / 0) (#21)
    by vml68 on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 11:08:47 AM EST
    during the 2nd part of the "Inside the Whitehouse" segment they played "Sinnerman" in the background? I thought it was an interesting choice of song.

    Parent
    At least out in the hinterlands (none / 0) (#14)
    by Bemused on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 10:49:52 AM EST
     some people do mess with low grade. I get cases involving low grade Mexican weed selling "wholesale" for $800 a lb. There is also a substantial market for "midi" which runs about 13-1500 a lb.

      I actually don't recall a case where my client was accused of selling "chronic" although quite a few of the coke and crack guys possessed personal use amounts on them when busted.

      Your point about quality not affecting the charge or likely sentence  is pretty much  accurate insofar as  the drug counts go, but many drug cases are joined with money laundering counts so the price can have an affect.

      In most drug  cases because counts get grouped (I'm talking about federal here) and the base offense level is set by the highest offense which is a drug count, ancillary money launderng charges have no real impact on sentencing. with marijuana, though, because it takes such a vastly greater quantity of marijuana to result in the same offense level as with the other recreational drugs, you do get instances where the guidelines for money laundering work out higher than for the drug count. Obviously, then the more expensive the weed the more likely that is to happen and the greater ther difference between the offense level for the marijuana count and the money laundering count.

     

    Who's in the Whitehouse? (none / 0) (#15)
    by Inspector Gadget on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 10:53:29 AM EST
    The problem with transparency is Obama would have to make his visitors list available, and he doesn't want to do that.

    What's interesting (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by jbindc on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 11:05:21 AM EST
    Is that the administration is making the same arguments that Bush did - and were rejected TWICE by federal judges. Apparently they think the third time is the charm.

    For all those who want to defend Obama - this is how we found out about Jack Abramaoff......

    Parent

    Considering the concerns voiced (5.00 / 0) (#25)
    by Inspector Gadget on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 11:19:19 AM EST
    during the primary and election over some questionable friends and close associates of Obama, one would really think he wouldn't want to continue having the people mistrust who is in his circle.

    Parent
    How silly..... (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by NYShooter on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 12:10:31 PM EST
    If someone wants a secret meeting, is the White House the only place on earth it can be held?

    Just asking....


    Parent

    If he wants it with the POTUS, it probably is (none / 0) (#58)
    by Inspector Gadget on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 03:19:29 PM EST
    You think no one would notice the parade, the abundance of Secret Service, and that great big seal on the side of the aircraft he travels in if they met elsewhere?

    We have a right to know who is in our Whitehouse and why. You seem to object to the notion of transparency as something that we would find beneficial.


    Parent

    Because (none / 0) (#60)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 07:40:45 AM EST
    The left complained when Dick Cheney had secret meetings with energy executives and Bush met regularly with leaders of the religious right.

    Also - the only way that Jack Abramoff had dealings with the WH was through the visitors' log.

    Parent

    A New York judge (none / 0) (#20)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 11:05:30 AM EST
    is supposedly threatening the New York Senate that if they don't work out a compromise, he'll direct one. Talk about a separation of powers problem!

    Pipe down Judge... (none / 0) (#22)
    by kdog on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 11:12:28 AM EST
    I, for one, am enjoying the show and the government gridlock.  Yeah, we are wasting a couple million a week on state senate costs without a functioning state senate...but I think that is a net savings for the taxpayer in the long run, and no new state laws is the cherry on top!


    Parent
    Except, you know, for laws (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 11:15:10 AM EST
    that need to be passed. Believe it or not, shutting down the government doesn't work.

    Parent
    Such as? (none / 0) (#24)
    by kdog on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 11:18:21 AM EST
    Got an example of law that is needed?  I got a list that need repealing, but nothing that needs passing.

    Parent
    Marriage equality, the budget (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 11:20:40 AM EST
    Just to name two.

    Parent
    I don't want any budget... (none / 0) (#31)
    by kdog on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 11:35:22 AM EST
    the legislative wizards in Albany come up with passed...we're broke and overtaxed as it is.

    Marriage equality is noble...but I still we're going about that thing all wrong...we need the state out of the marriage business, not more wrapped up in it.

    Parent

    The good news is (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 11:37:32 AM EST
    that your ideology is totally unrepresented in Albany.

    I could not disagree with you more.

    Parent

    Tell me about... (none / 0) (#36)
    by kdog on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 11:58:00 AM EST
    and your idealogy is well represented up in that cesspool of corruption and cronyism called Albany...I might keep that down though if I was you, people might start to hold it against your idealogy:)

    Parent
    Believe it or not (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 12:00:54 PM EST
    most people do not hate the government. They like their roads, police, social security, and medicare.

    Parent
    They don't hate the principle... (none / 0) (#49)
    by kdog on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 12:37:56 PM EST
    of govt...just the practice.  Or at least my people do...must be the chains and cages.

    Parent
    The poblem is (none / 0) (#51)
    by NYShooter on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 12:46:30 PM EST
    seniority.

    Everybody knows New York is two states; "Blue" NYC, and "Red" everywhere else.

    For fifteen years, Sheldon Silver, Democrat from Manhattan, has been Assembly Speaker. So a small coterie of supporters in Manhattan, reluctantly, I'm sure, accept the gobs of pork Silver pours on their heads, and dutifully re-elect him year after year.

    Once great cities: Syracuse, Rochester, Buffalo, Binghamton, Ithaca, etc. are rotting away. It's a tragedy that simply defies all logic. Everything is there: Great road system, lakes, rivers, waterways, airports, railoads, fertile soil, buildings, universities & colleges, complete infrastructure, and an educated, industrious work force.

    And what has "Shelly" done for them in his fifteen years as Speaker? He gave them just what they needed; reinstituted the death penalty in 2005.....his work is complete.

    Parent

    Fairness doctrine (none / 0) (#27)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 11:20:20 AM EST
    needs passing.

    Parent
    I thought some (none / 0) (#55)
    by lilburro on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 02:27:10 PM EST
    people would be interested in this...from Jane Mayer:

    Brennan has described himself as an internal critic of waterboarding--a position that friends, such as Emile Nakhleh, a former senior officer, confirm. Yet, in an interview with me two years ago, Brennan defended the use of "enhanced" interrogation techniques and extraordinary renditions, in which the C.I.A. abducted terror suspects around the globe and transported them to other countries to be jailed and interrogated; many of those countries had execrable human-rights records. He also questioned some people's definition of "torture." "I think it's torture when I have to ride in the car with my kids and they have loud rap music on," he said. Asked if "enhanced" interrogation techniques were necessary to keep America safe, he replied, "Would the U.S. be handicapped if the C.I.A. was not, in fact, able to carry out these types of detention and debriefing activities? I would say yes."

    Too bad these quotes weren't available during the initial pre-Inauguration argument.  This is where the "torture supporter" characterization of Jane Mayer's Black Sites piece obviously comes from.

    So much for transparency (none / 0) (#56)
    by stefystef on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 03:01:59 PM EST
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_white_house_secrecy

    The group, Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, filed its lawsuit after being denied access to Secret Service records, including White House entry and exit logs, that would identify coal and energy industry visitors.

    The government's refusal to release the records contrasts with President Barack Obama's pledge of transparency.




    Well (5.00 / 2) (#57)
    by jbindc on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 03:12:22 PM EST
    He and Dick Cheney ARE related....

    Parent
    Donte Stallworth (none / 0) (#59)
    by CoralGables on Tue Jun 16, 2009 at 06:51:36 PM EST
    Accepting responsibility for the drunk-driving crash that killed a pedestrian on Miami Beach, NFL player Donte' Stallworth pleaded guilty Tuesday and was sentenced to serve one month in a Miami-Dade County jail.

    After he gets out, Stallworth will serve two years of house arrest followed by eight years' probation, according to his plea deal. He will also lose his driving privileges for life and have to perform 1,000 hours of community service.

    While many will be bothered by what appears to be the lightness of this sentence for a drunk driver, it should be noted that Stallworth wasn't speeding or driving recklessly, and the death was a direct result of a pedestrian walking into the path of his car.

    If the evidence indicates... (none / 0) (#61)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 09:40:08 AM EST
    the pedestrian caused the unfortunate accident, and Stallworth broke no law outside the DWI, why is he being punished at all for anything except dwi?

    B.A.C. doesn't hurt anybody, reckless driving does, whether caused by alcohol consumption or general negligence...why can't we just punish the reckless driving?  As it is, a B.A.C over the limit automatically makes you guilty, even if the other guy ran a red light and caused the whole thing....it makes no sense.

    Parent