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Voices of Glory: Move Over, Susan Boyle

The final act on America's Got Talent tonight. Great singers with a very moving story.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    I'm curious (5.00 / 0) (#1)
    by CoralGables on Tue Jun 23, 2009 at 11:47:08 PM EST
    for opinions from the females here. This is strictly a hypothetical question of course.

    If your husband disappeared for five days without saying where he was going, when he would be back, or even that he was actually leaving, and left you home with your four sons over the fathers day weekend without hearing from him, and the reason he didn't or couldn't tell you where he was for the five days was because he claimed to be hiking the Appalachian Trail (even though his car was at an airport in Atlanta)...how likely would you be to believe a word he said? And would he have a home to come home to?

    {wipes wine off screen} (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by nycstray on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 12:48:37 AM EST
    If I was feeling generous, packed bags on front porch . . .

    Parent
    revised/updated (5.00 / 2) (#72)
    by nycstray on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 01:59:50 PM EST
    No luggage on porch, locks changed,

    Parent
    It appears (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 02:00:50 PM EST
    you and I saw the eventual outcome amidst the hiking spin. I apologize for any wine stains.

    Parent
    No apologies necessary! (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by nycstray on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 02:11:43 PM EST
    "Spit humor" is always appreciated :)

    I really must invest in popcorn stock  {grin}

    Parent

    Not buying the whole story (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 12:59:16 AM EST
    Not clear to me that the wife didn't know where he was, either.  A reporter apparently caught her by surprise by knocking on her front door and didn't have a plausible explanation prepared.  She said then he was off "writing" somewhere.

    But if it's true that she didn't know, just because 99 percent of the women in the world wouldn't put up with it doesn't mean it isn't perfectly OK within their relationship.  I agree that's a stretch, but people's marriages and the things they put up with within it are unknowable.

    I doubt very much Sanford was taking a nice healthy hike on the Appalachian trail.  (Was he camping out?  Did he take a sleeping bag?  The whole thing is pretty preposterous.)  What the heck he was doing, though, is anybody's guess.

    Parent

    Indeed (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by andgarden on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 01:13:31 AM EST
    I find it very hard to make this sort of thing my business. Sanford is a right wing nut; how he conducts himself in his marriage is of limited interest to me.

    However, if he's hurting the state by his unexplained absence, that's a different story.

    Parent

    But the question was what would we believe (none / 0) (#9)
    by nycstray on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 01:33:42 AM EST
    /do based on the "hypothetical" situation.  ;)

    I've paid very little attention to the actual 'event'. The circus I'm watching is our senate . . . {headdesk}

    Parent

    Well, as I'm not in the demo targeted by the (none / 0) (#10)
    by andgarden on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 02:06:43 AM EST
    question, I can't comment!

    Parent
    And it turns out once again (none / 0) (#74)
    by andgarden on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 02:07:52 PM EST
    that hypocrisy is a Republican value.

    I really can't stand these people.

    Parent

    I will give some of them a tad bit of (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by nycstray on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 02:18:01 PM EST
    credit. They can be very "entertaining" in their hypocrisy. Going off "hiking" is one thing . . . .

    Sadly, again, wife and young kids involved.

    Parent

    Need more info in the scenario (5.00 / 2) (#11)
    by ruffian on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 05:31:02 AM EST
    Do I actually like this guy? Maybe I'm glad to have him gone for a few days.

    Yeah, that's why I'm not married.

    Parent

    Given the apparent lack of anxiety (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by Anne on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 07:04:46 AM EST
    about where Sanford was, I'm guessing his wife knew something; whether what she knew was the truth remains to be seen, and that may be where the you-know-what hits the fan in that relationship.

    As I understand it, he went wherever it was he went without his security detail, and I imagine that was something that had to be worked out ahead of time, don't you think?

    Either he was where he said he was or he wasn't.  And someone will dig until they find the truth or hit a nerve - these things just do not stay secret for long.

    Maybe the Sanfords cooked this getaway up together - maybe they needed some time apart and thought this was the solution.  Who knows?

    There just doesn't seem to me to have been enough concern or urgency or anxiety about where Sanford was or why he had gone off by himself for me to believe his wife didn't know more than she's saying.  


    Parent

    He was in South America (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 08:17:35 AM EST
    He said he was visiting Buenos Aires, Argentina

    "Sanford, in an exclusive interview with The State Media Company, said he decided at the last minute to go to the South American country to recharge after a difficult legislative session in which he battled with lawmakers over how to spend federal stimulus money. Sanford said he had considered hiking on the Appalachian Trail, an activity he said he has enjoyed since he was a high school student. `But I said no, I wanted to do something exotic,' Sanford said. `It's a great city.'

    "Sanford, in a brief interview in the nation's busiest airport, said he has been to the city twice before, most recently about a year and half ago during a Commerce Department trip. Sanford said he was alone on the trip. He declined to give any additional details about what he did other than to say he drove along the coastline.

    SNIP

    "When asked why his staff said he was on the Appalachian Trail, Sanford replied, `I don't know.' Sanford later said `in fairness to his staff, he had told them he might go hiking on the Appalachian Trial.

    "Sanford said he left Thursday night from the Columbia Metropolitan airport. Media reports said a SLED SUV the governor drove that night was spotted in the airport's parking lot. Sanford said he decided not to return via the Columbia airport to avoid the media. The State Media Company was the only media who greeted Sanford Wednesday morning. `I don't know how this thing got blown out of proportion,' Sanford said.

    "Sanford said he has taken adventure trips for years to unwind. He has visited such places as the coast of Turkey, the Greek Isles and South America. Sometimes with friends, sometimes by himself. `I would get out of the bubble I am in,' Sanford said.

    Don't know if this answers the question, but I guess if I was a political wife, I might not answer the question if some reporter came to my door asking about the whereabouts of my husband.


    Parent

    "I don't know how this thing (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by lilburro on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 09:19:43 AM EST
    got blown out of proportion"...REALLY?

    I mean God knows he's so conservative that it's unlikely over those five days he would've lifted a finger to help the people of South Carolina, but still, if you are an elected civil servant you do have a responsibility to be in contact with your staff/available to the public...what a jerk.

    Parent

    How likely? (none / 0) (#3)
    by Shainzona on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 12:25:41 AM EST
    Not at all.

    Parent
    Good riddance to bad rubbish. (none / 0) (#5)
    by shoephone on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 12:54:47 AM EST
    Sorry. Some things are just too obvious. Good luck.

    Parent
    New version (none / 0) (#16)
    by MO Blue on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 08:21:47 AM EST
    According to Sanford he was in Argentina rather than on a hiking trail.

    The Republican told the South Carolina newspaper he decided at the last minute to go to the South American country. The governor says he had considered hiking on the Appalachian Trail but wanted to do something "exotic." link



    Parent
    Stand back, Buenos Aires (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by ruffian on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 08:58:30 AM EST
    This gets funnier and funnier. Lovin' it.

    Can we rule him out as a candidate in 2012 yet?

    Parent

    He would probably campaign (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by MO Blue on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 10:06:52 AM EST
    on having a good relationship in, I mean with, Argentina.

    Parent
    LOL. (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by Dr Molly on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 01:20:15 PM EST
    Thanks, good laugh.

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#32)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 09:03:01 AM EST
    Politico comments that Sanford's always been a bit of weird duck:

    Beside the well-worn story of the governor cradling squealing piglets under his arms in the statehouse to make a point about pork-barrel spending, Sanford-did-what stories are legion in Columbia political circles.

    They're small incidents, but enough to raise eyebrows among the traditionalists who dominate the state's political establishment.

    As a member of Congress in the 1990s, he slept in his office to save money. Political insiders recount tales of his walking around barefoot in meetings in the state Capitol and even doing sit-ups at odd times. During his State of the State speech in 2006, he lost his train of thought and admitted he was daydreaming about a fishing trip with a pal.

    Katon Dawson, the former state GOP chairman, recalled when Sanford disappeared from the Republican National Convention last year in St. Paul, Minn.

    "He called me and said he was in back in South Carolina," Dawson said. "He didn't tell anybody."



    Parent
    "exotic", hmmmmm. (none / 0) (#17)
    by Dr Molly on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 08:25:30 AM EST
    Methinks we may hear more....

    Parent
    Maybe (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 08:27:22 AM EST
    But he's said he's done this before - go off somewhere exotic by himself.

    Weird.

    Parent

    Trip may have been completely above (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by MO Blue on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 08:35:47 AM EST
    board. Yet, you have to admit, that his word choice of "exotic" just begs for further speculation.

    Parent
    Absolutely (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 08:39:21 AM EST
    You confusing exotic with (none / 0) (#60)
    by Inspector Gadget on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 01:18:50 PM EST
    erotic?

    With exotic the only "more" I expect to hear is what color the umbrella was in his pineapple drink, and whether or not he went scuba diving or snorkling.


    Parent

    As the air clears (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 01:41:33 PM EST
    it appears it was erotic snorkeling

    Parent
    No, not confused (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by MO Blue on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 03:33:31 PM EST
    My mind just puts romantic interludes together with exotic places. Evidently Gov. Sanford also puts romantic interludes together with exotic places.

     

    Parent

    At least (none / 0) (#81)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 03:36:58 PM EST
    this is more understandable (but not excusable) than David Vitter or Larry Craig, or yes, even Bill Clinton.  From what Sanford said, I think these two had an emotional connection and it wasn't as tawdry as just freaky $ex.

    Parent
    So, if Vitter and Ensign were (5.00 / 2) (#83)
    by Anne on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 03:56:51 PM EST
    greeted by their Republican colleagues with applause, do you imagine they might throw Sanford a ticker-tape parade because "at least" he had an "emotional" connection to his mistress/lover/soul mate???

    Okay, sure - the guy had marital problems that he says he and his wife were trying to work out, but it was still cheating, and in my mind the betrayal is worse because of the emotional connection, not more understandable. Why do you think Elizabeth Edwards had such a hard time with her husband's affair?  Because the intimacy of that affair - the emotional component - struck at the core of her marriage.

    So, the "ew" factor isn't present here - is that how we decide what is "understandable" and what isn't?  

    Yes, people struggle in their marriages and they make "mistakes," and we never really know what's going on behind closed doors - and being married and in the public eye places additional strains on relationships.  I really do not care how the Sanfords choose to deal with this or any other aspect of their marriage - I just don't want to hear any more BS about family values and the sanctity of marriage from people who have no regard for either but who think they are qualified to lecture and legislate for everyone else.


    Parent

    You forgot Spitzer! (none / 0) (#82)
    by nycstray on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 03:52:34 PM EST
    We shall see. (none / 0) (#62)
    by Dr Molly on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 01:21:15 PM EST
    Something smells funny to me about the whole thing.

    Parent
    Looks like (none / 0) (#66)
    by Dr Molly on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 01:48:19 PM EST
    I wasn't confused after all.

    He just admitted the affair.

    Parent

    Yep (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 01:51:11 PM EST
    a "dear friend" from Argentina.

    Seriously...is there going to be anybody left in the Republican Party to run for POTUS in 2012?  I mean, I don't want them in power, but I don't want a one-party system either.

    Parent

    As someone pointed out (none / 0) (#84)
    by ruffian on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 04:12:59 PM EST
    Mitt Romney may be the last man standing.

    Parent
    Okay, before I go (none / 0) (#21)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 08:36:58 AM EST
    physically stress myself so that the mental matches the physical I just want to say that this is really super freaky deeky.

    Parent
    Since I'm strictly dealing (none / 0) (#25)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 08:46:33 AM EST
    in hypotheticals here, and hypothetical question #1 appears to no longer be relevant, dare we ask how females here would handle hypothetical question #2...

    If your husband left with his sleeping bag and no ability to contact him, and all reports were that he was hiking the Appalachian Trail, later to be learned that he had disappeared to Buenos Aires for five days over Fathers Day weekend leaving you alone with your four sons, how likely would you be to believe he was seeking "alone time"? Or would you have visions of doing your best Lorena Bobbitt imitation upon his return?

    Parent

    My father... (none / 0) (#26)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 08:46:56 AM EST
    disappeared once for a week, but he did leave some word...a note on the kitchen table stating "I have to do what I have to do".  When he came home we found out Vegas is what he had to do.  Moms was none too pleased, but she took him back...she knew who she loved and married, a stubborn free spirited alcoholic.

    Another time, the family was included in the stunt...my dad came home from work and said "Honey Bun, pack the bags and the kids, were going to Florida and the flight leaves in 2 hours".  Moms got him good that time though, when in the haste to pack and run she forgot dad's clothes...he wore his work clothes that whole vacation!

    Boy how we can laugh about this stuff now!

    Parent

    Responding.... (none / 0) (#45)
    by BackFromOhio on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 10:37:15 AM EST
    I would not believe the story, but he would have a home to come to, at least as long as it took to get the truth out of him.

    Parent
    Hmmmmm. Isn't there room.... (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by Shainzona on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 12:24:37 AM EST
    ....for the Susan Boyles AND the Voices of Glory in the same world?

    Why must we always pit one against the other?

    Susan Boyle is a terrific "story" - an everywoman with a terrific voice.  

    Please, don't compare Boyle with every other opportunity for us common folks  - we really do exist...without the competition.

    "Move Over" (5.00 / 0) (#6)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 12:58:02 AM EST
    means she has to make room for Voices for Glory, they can share the stage and attention. I didn't mean she was being replaced, only that she has company as a great talent find.

    Parent
    Thank you for posting that video, Jeralyn (5.00 / 0) (#13)
    by kempis on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 07:06:26 AM EST
    Amazing vocals, arrangement, and harmony. Wow. And that little girl in particular has a rich, extraordinary voice for a nine-year-old.

    Wow.

    Parent

    Thanks for sharing that! (5.00 / 0) (#14)
    by robrecht on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 07:16:49 AM EST


    Josh came through surgery well (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 08:33:50 AM EST
    yesterday, had to wait until around 2:00 in the afternoon to go in due to unforeseen events occuring in one of the earlier children going in.  I'm not certain that very very good surgeons are really people, I think they could be disguised superaliens or something.  They are people who for whatever reason process stress as if it were antioxidant stuffed Belgium chocolate.  He got out around 5:00.  We will be facing haloing him in the future to get some better correction to carry him into adulthood and hopefully toward a 50 year life expectancy.  It is stressful though, and we'll probably go through some of this with my husband deployed for a time next year too.  I'm always torn between the stress, the awe of the physicians in our lives, the awe of the person that my son is (I don't know how I ever became fortunate enough to get to share a life with him....I must have done something very very good in a past life), and realizing what our options would have been if Josh had been born even ten years or five years earlier.  He probably would have been in halo gravity traction which is a miserable way to live and you develop no musculature.  He'd be weak as a kitten after being released from it and he wouldn't know his body's abilities to move.  Thanks to Dr. Campbell who invented the titanium rib process though, my son wrestles with his dad and they stole one of my dog toys that is a football shaped squeaky duck and they play some wierd game in the house they call Footduck.  He will be haloed but he'll be mobile.  I just wish he didn't have to go through so much to physically grow up.  Anyhow, before the stress gets me I decided to train for one of those walking marathons.  So I have my daily training planner and heading out the door for day one.  I'd like to run, but my asthma down here is a super bummer....though sort of in remission right now because the dryish heat is burning the snot out of the mold and mildew outdoors.

    MT (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 08:37:05 AM EST
    Great news!  He seems like an awesome little guy - certainly lots of heart!

    If I may ask (and you certainly don't have to answer), what is wrong with Josh?  I missed the beginning of this conversation way back when...

    Parent

    He has a gene mutation known (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 08:48:16 AM EST
    as Freeman Sheldon Syndrome.  They don't know exaxtly where it occurs in the genome yet....it is very rare so not much funding.  There are three separate groupings now of what used to be all termed Freeman Sheldon Syndrome but now that we understand more we know that all three groups are a different mutation.  Joshua has what is known as Classic Freeman Sheldon Syndrome.  It is a mutation that has been occuring among human beings for possibly thousands of years and has to do with coding for small muscle groups when you are fetus....it doesn't happen correctly if the conception created the mutation.  All ethnicities experience it and it doesn't prefer one sex over another either...it is very equal opportunity :)  Once the mutation has occured though it is autosomal dominant and he has a 50% chance of his children having it.  I can't believe how brave some of the people with this mutation are too.  Their collagen is slightly different due to it, it is denser and their skin is much less elastic and yet they even brave motherhood. Most of them lead very full lives if we can avoid their bodies betraying them too badly while they are growing.  It is the lack of certain small muscle groups impact on their skeletal structures that causes them so many problems.  They also tend to be very intelligent which I personally believe has to do with the collagen consistency...but I'm not a doctor or a geneticist...just some little dude's mom :)

    Parent
    Thank you for sharing (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 08:56:52 AM EST
    And being the little dude's mom is the best!

    Parent
    Interesting, thank you (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by ruffian on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 09:33:58 AM EST
    It's not easy to be the mom of the little dude with the interesting case. I'm glad he has such a smart and resourceful mom!

    Parent
    Glad that the surgery went well (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by MO Blue on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 08:40:34 AM EST
    Sorry that he and your family has to go through this.

    Walking is a great stress reliever and kudos for taking good care of yourself during difficult times.

    Parent

    Great News!.... (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 08:55:56 AM EST
    I have an idea where you're coming from with the awe of the surgeons...my youngest niece wouldn't have lived 5 minutes 25 years ago being born with CDH...now she is a happy, tough as nails 4 year old and everybodys hero.  Columbia Presbyterian and their fine doctors and nurses really kick serious arse.

    She has to go in for a "tune up" as we've come to call it right after the 4th holiday...one of the thingys that holds the rods on her spine in place for her scoliosis came loose...probably because she is so rough and tumble on the swing set!  Ya gotta let them be kids.  

    It does suck what they have to go through, breaks your heart...but it beats the alternative ya know?  

    Parent

    You know that saying about (none / 0) (#88)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 07:43:46 PM EST
    how we become stronger at the broke places?  I used to really like that spiritual equation.  And then chit got broken that I swore you couldn't survive breaking, some things were ground to dust, and I just wouldn't die...and neither would he.  I don't know what to make of that saying now.  I don't think I'm scar tissue but I should be if I believe that healing leaves "marks", he has quite a bit of it but mostly he's boy.

    Parent
    Good news! (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 09:18:43 AM EST
    Josh is a real fighter, huh?  That's great.  

    Brings back a lot of memories for me though.  The one good thing of all of this happening at a young age is that you really don't know any different.  It's just the way things are.  I know I couldn't go through all of what I did as a kid today.  

    I'm sure you and my Mom could swap stories for weeks!

    Parent

    My perspective on guys like you two (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 07:35:39 PM EST
    It's extremely spiritual for me.  Because of who you are you possess an astounding knowledge of the universe and its truths, your very being possesses those things and the depths of who you guys are seems bottomless to lesser survivors and celebraters of life.  I am a much different person having been Joshua's mom.  It hurt a lot at first but I would never go back because I'm so improved.  I would have been so spineless and depthless without this experience, and I'm feeling this being far away from him right now and acknowledging my singularity and autonomy in this.  Now that I know this me....the old me was so faithless and pining and fooled by how much I was certain that I controlled and could control.  I have had to reach deep deep into my being and yet you and Joshua have reached even deeper, so far...and most people have convinced themselves that doing so would be impossible.  And when Joshua enters a room the light of who his being is still takes my breath away sometimes.

    Parent
    Celebrating life... (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 09:21:49 PM EST
    ...is what its about in the end.  The drive to live life to the fullest extent possible, in spite of your physical or mental limitations.  The struggle to overcome any lingering sense of resentment, bitterness or "the why me's" and dealing with the hand you are dealt.  Accepting yourself for what you are and realizing you are shaped by your experiences and are a better person because of them, no matter how painful they may be.  Finding the courage deep inside to make it through just one more day when everything seems to be against you.  

    As a Mother, you play a vital role in all of that--more than you might already imagine.  My Mother gave me the strength, determination, resolve, courage and the reason to live that has kept me going for all these years.  No way I could have done it without her.

    Blessings for both you and Josh.

    Parent

    Blessings to you and your Mom (none / 0) (#94)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 09:46:02 PM EST
    Namaste!

    Parent
    So...can you bear to share (none / 0) (#54)
    by oldpro on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 12:02:47 PM EST
    a memory or two?

    Parent
    I would... (none / 0) (#55)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 12:08:21 PM EST
    ...but it would be unseemly to be bawling at work.  They think I'm strange enough as it is!  :)

    Parent
    Oh my. (none / 0) (#56)
    by oldpro on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 12:18:12 PM EST
    Not good.

    But will you share the injury...ailment...condition you had as a child?

    Parent

    Open invitation (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by ruffian on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 09:46:14 AM EST
    to Ruffian's B&B in Orlando if Josh can enjoy Disneyworld someday. Love to have you!!!

    Parent
    You could live to regret this (none / 0) (#87)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 07:38:10 PM EST
    because we are talking about Disneyworld before my husband deploys :)  Deployment looks like sometime around October at this time, which is always subject to any given change in the military :)

    Parent
    Glad to hear Josh came through like (5.00 / 2) (#44)
    by Anne on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 10:34:01 AM EST
    the champ he clearly is!  What a relief it must be to be able to put this one behind you, and enjoy his improved quality of life and the knowledge that each of these obstacles successfully hurdled is not just a triumph of medicine, but of will and spirit and heart.

    Josh is lucky to have you on his team, tracy.

    Parent

    The ghost of Nixon past (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 09:00:45 AM EST
    NYT has an article about some Nixon tapes that were released by the National Archives.

    Some interesting tidbits:

    On Jan. 23, 1973, when the Supreme Court struck down laws criminalizing abortion in Roe v. Wade, President Richard M. Nixon made no public statement. But privately, newly released tapes reveal, he expressed ambivalence.

    Nixon worried that greater access to abortions would foster "permissiveness," and said that "it breaks the family." But he also saw a need for abortion in some cases -- like interracial pregnancies, he said.

    "There are times when an abortion is necessary. I know that. When you have a black and a white," he told an aide, before adding, "Or a rape."

    Nine months later, Nixon forced the firing of the special prosecutor looking into the Watergate affair, Archibald Cox, and prompted the resignations of Attorney General Elliot L. Richardson and Deputy Attorney General William D. Ruckelshaus. The next day, Ronald Reagan, who was then governor of California and would later be president, told the White House that he approved.

    Reagan said the action, which would become known as the "Saturday Night Massacre," was "probably the best thing that ever happened -- none of them belong where they were," according to a Nixon aide's notes of the private conversation.

    And

    The tapes also include a phone call from February 1973 between Nixon and the evangelist Billy Graham, during which Mr. Graham complained that Jewish-American leaders were opposing efforts to promote evangelical Christianity, like Campus Crusade. The two men agreed that the Jewish leaders risked setting off anti-Semitic sentiment.

    "What I really think is deep down in this country, there is a lot of anti-Semitism, and all this is going to do is stir it up," Nixon said.

    At another point he said: "It may be they have a death wish. You know that's been the problem with our Jewish friends for centuries."

    Tricky Dick....What a guy!

    Reagan's opinion (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by ruffian on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 09:27:53 AM EST
    of what makes a good attorney general is pretty telling. I still can't say 'Attorney General Edwin Meese' without gagging.

    Yeah, they had some 'good ideas', didn't they?

    It is good to have things like this come to light every couple of years to remind people who these guys were and push back the myth-making, at least a little.

    Parent

    Nixon's brother (none / 0) (#42)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 10:22:26 AM EST
    Ed lives in Lynnwood, WA (a suburb of our Seattle).  He was on Evening Magazine last night, pushing his new book, about, you guessed it!

    Parent
    Title: (none / 0) (#85)
    by ruffian on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 04:14:50 PM EST
    "Our Jewish Friends"  ?

    Parent
    Really? (5.00 / 0) (#36)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 09:24:10 AM EST
    Sweeping generalizations aside, were you not here during the primaries?  'Cause I sure saw a lot of that from people around here no matter which candidate they supported.  

    In fact, it still goes on and on and on with some.  

    But you're right, it does not reflect well on them or their politician of choice--be it Clinton or Obama.

    The comment you are replying to (none / 0) (#91)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 09:36:08 PM EST
    was deleted for profanity and name-calling. So is the response to this comment, so I'm sorry if it appears you are talking to yourself.

    Lentinel, watch the language and personal attacks please.

    Parent

    No worries, Jeralyn... (none / 0) (#93)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 09:44:26 PM EST
    ...I'm used to talking to myself!  After all, nobody understands me like me.

    Parent
    Obama says (5.00 / 3) (#48)
    by kmblue on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 10:59:56 AM EST
     no lines in sand regarding health care, and Krugman says saying that is a big fat gift to the Repubs.  I agree.
    So much for yesterday's presser and the idea that Obama will back a public option.

    Yesterday's presser (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 11:25:38 AM EST
    As they all are, was for show only, comtinuing today on the Obama Network - ABC.

    Parent
    We chose... (5.00 / 0) (#50)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 11:16:13 AM EST
    ...what we want to see in some cases it appears.

    Politics is a vile, dirty game played by extremely egotistical, self-centered, self-involved and self-serving people and to expect anything less is very naive.  In the end there is always a winner and a loser and the associated hard feelings that come along with that.  You can either get past that or continue to fight battles long since decided.  Your choice.

    I happen to chose the former, but then I'm not a card carrying member of either's cult of personality.

    What I felt (5.00 / 3) (#59)
    by lentinel on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 12:54:35 PM EST
    was that if Obama was the uniter and prince of peace that he was portrayed as being, his supporters would have expressed a feeling that reflected that. Instead, I found them to be humorless and aggressively nasty.

    I am saying all this because every day it seems I am reading something from Obama that disgusts me. Whether it's his suppression of the photos and marginalizing of the Freedom of Information Act, the Bushie national security dodge, the secrecy, the support for the dismissal of the Plame lawsuit... You name it.

    We all saw it coming, but were too scared of McCain to demand more of the democratic party.

    Parent

    please watch your language (none / 0) (#92)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 09:37:10 PM EST
    two of your ocmments so far have been deleted.

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    You seem to be very careful (5.00 / 0) (#52)
    by slr51 on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 11:32:22 AM EST
    to only see and hear what you want to.  There were many examples of very nasty bile going both ways.

    I don't know who the "us" is you think are getting "nothing". For example the Clintons do not seem to agree with your assessment.

    And? (5.00 / 3) (#58)
    by lentinel on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 12:48:30 PM EST
    I'm not especially interested in the Clintons' assessment.

    I'm here on the ground.


    Parent

    This (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by Dr Molly on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 01:51:41 PM EST
    Routinely, if you point out that Obama is pursuing an agenda that is disturbingly like Bush, you are called a troll or a McCain republican or a Clinton supporter. And Obama is free to do as he wishes.

    Accurate, disturbing, and frustrating. I keep wondering how long that game can be played; surprisingly, it appears for a very long time. I guess he will keep being free to as he wishes.


    Jesus H. Christ (5.00 / 0) (#78)
    by jondee on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 02:18:13 PM EST
    on a popsical stick.

    Didnt we already have this hurray-for-everything-about-our-side conversation like a year ago?

    There were plenty of people who voted for Obama simply because he'd been demonized for much less time than HRC and therefore was more electable and because the alternative would've been another mandate for the effing neocon scum. That simple.

    This infantile idiocy about whose supporters are generally nicer people and whose are more cult-like is laughable considering the more important point that the Center-Right was set up to carry the day either way; as opposed to the hard-Right (some choice!).

    Will Obama's real position on healthCARE (none / 0) (#43)
    by MO Blue on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 10:30:13 AM EST
    please stand up?

    The White House may be indicating to Senate allies that it is open to dropping the public plan option as part of a health reform deal. Sen. Kent Conrad (D-ND), who has been pushing a proposal to replace the public plan with regional cooperatives, said chief of staff Rahm Emanuel indicated Obama is "open to alternatives."
    Think Progress


    I guess it depends... (none / 0) (#46)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 10:39:44 AM EST
    ...on how the term "public" is defined.  The co-op alternative is getting pushed pretty hard, but would it work in real life?

    "The co-op is something Americans are very familiar with, that they've seen it or heard about it in other forms, like farm co-ops. So you're just translating; this will just be the same thing but with health care," said Julian Zelizer, an expert on Congress at Princeton University.

    "It's a more sellable program than something that seems more foreign, like a single-payer or government-run program. This is just more familiar," he said. "In practice it may not be true, but this is what we do in politics."

    Link

    Parent

    IIRC the American public is already (5.00 / 2) (#47)
    by MO Blue on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 10:57:40 AM EST
    sold on the public option with something like 76% wanting that option included in health care reform.

    It is not the public that is standing in the way of a robust public option it is lack of leadership and Democratic members of Congress who would rather have the campaign contributions of the insurance industry than provide their constituents with the care they need and want.

    Parent

    Governor of Washington State (none / 0) (#49)
    by Inspector Gadget on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 11:01:49 AM EST
    is in DC today to talk about the co-op model from here. Group Health Cooperative has been a well-respected and well-run healthcare plan for decades. People who are part of it, love it. Decades ago they weren't thought to have the best doctors (salaried personnel, and all), but now they have closed one of their hospitals and sub-contracted to a private one for in-patient care while they focus on out-patient, exams, tests, etc. They are doing very well. I would not be the least bit disappointed if co-op is the chosen one.


    Parent
    Yes... (none / 0) (#53)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 11:36:28 AM EST
    ...I am very well versed on Group Health and the care they provide as both my parents were/are covered with them.

    However, that does not mean that they are not without problems.  For instance, they have been sanctioned by the state for using unfiled rates and improper claims payment as well as a significant number of consumer complaints (34 in '08].  

    Parent

    Wow, 34 complaints in a year (none / 0) (#63)
    by Inspector Gadget on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 01:30:50 PM EST
    with how many members?

    Tell me one large business, particularly in something as intense as medical, that does not have some problems.

    I simply think that if the co-op ends up being the model for UHC, it isn't a horrible outcome.

    Parent

    Adjusted for membership... (none / 0) (#79)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 02:21:51 PM EST
    ...their complaint ratio is middle of the pack.  Not as good as Kaiser, but not as bad as BC/BS in that regard.

    I don't think a co-op model would be a terrible thing either, however it's not as ideal as you've been trying to make it out to be over the last couple of days.  

    Parent

    Both (none / 0) (#89)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 07:55:54 PM EST
    My husband and I were both Group Health members. Prior to meeting, we ran screaming from them.

    Awful care, just awful.  I was actually afraid of my "primary care doctor" because he was just so creepy, greasy, ewwww.  The doctors that you could see were BEYOND limited, as I've described.  In addition it took 6 months to get a vision appointment.  Those are just the things I remember.  

    I would NEVER belong to Group Death again.  And if it were the only healthcare option at a company I would potentially work for, I'd turn down the job or ask for more money so I could cover myself and opt out of their insurance.

    Group Health is NOT an answer.

    Not my idea of a good organization.

    Parent

    Cheney (none / 0) (#57)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 12:47:41 PM EST
    Signed a book deal worth millions to write his memoirs - stretching all the way back to his days with Nixon and Ford.

    And a picaresque Balzacian (none / 0) (#67)
    by jondee on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 01:50:58 PM EST
    tour-de-force it'll no doubt be.

    Probobly the literary equivalent of autoerotic asphyxia -- minus the brief moment of excitement.

    Parent

    Hiking Governor Sanford (none / 0) (#65)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 01:44:57 PM EST
    resigns as chair of the Republican Governor's Association this afternoon amid questions of whether he will resign as Governor of South Carolina.

    He should come to NY... (none / 0) (#69)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 01:51:20 PM EST
    and join our honorable (lol) State Senate...they only show up to work to authorize their paychecks:)

    And when a special session is required to try and get them to do their jobs, the law requires they be paid $160 bucks a day(hat tip Michael Daly/NY Daily News).  But the law doesn't stiplulate how they are paid...Daly said pieces of silver...I think 1600 pennies is better and heavier to lug to the bank:)

    Parent

    He just admitted to an affair at presser (none / 0) (#71)
    by shoephone on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 01:52:19 PM EST
    The guy is another knucklehead. Goodbye political career.

    Parent
    While swine flu is no joke, (none / 0) (#76)
    by Anne on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 02:17:53 PM EST
    I couldn't help thinking that this news:

    Swine flu reported at WaPo

    may have the jokes writing themselves in some quarters...