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World Cup: USA v. Slovenia

FINAL 2-2. Great comeback win even though it goes in the books as a 2-2 draw. Now to root for Algeria against England.. What a terrible referee.

While we wait for USA's big match against Slovenia, Germany and Serbia and the referee in their match just completed a dramatic first half.

The referee has been card happy, handing them out like candy. He sent off Klose on a non dangerous foul. After the sendoff, Serbia scored. At the end of the half, Germany sent one off the crossbar and a Muller bicycle kick was cleared off the line by a Serbian defender.

FINAL - Serbia 1, Germany 0.

USA-Slovenia live blog below the fold. Of note - Jose Torres for Ricardo Clark in midfield is the only change in the USA starting lineup.

USA lineup - Howard, Bocanegra, Demerit, Onyewu, Cherundulo, Bradley, Jose Torres, Donovan, Dempsey, Altidore, Findley.

Slovenia - : Samir Handanovic, Bojan Jokic, Marko Suler, Bostjan Cesar, Miso Brecko, Valter Birsa, Robert Koren, Alexander Radosavlevic, Andraz Kirm, Milivoje Novakovic, Zlatko Dedic.

So it is Torres for Clark. Findley stays in the lineup. Do not like it at all. As I argued yesterday, I prefer Holden for Clark and Buddle for Findley.

Kickoff.

Nice attack by the USA at 5 minutes. Corner.

Torres demonstrating that he can hold the ball. What is the going to be worth in this game? Not much imo.

10 minutes - Slovenia is playing the way the USA should be playing. Possession football does not work with this Adidas ball. Slovenia looks the more dangerous team.

13th minute - GOAL! Slovenia 1, USA 0.

Predictably, Slovenia scores with a shot from outside the box. Possession football simply does not work with this Adidas ball.

20 minutes - Bob Bradley has put his team behind the 8-ball by pretending he has a European possession side instead of playing long ball/long shot/finisher football. Now of course the USA must go forward against an even more packed in Slovenia defense. This will be almost impossible for the USA.

Terrible decisions by Bradley.

25 minutes - So if Robbie Findley gets the ball at the nd of an attack, what exactly does anyone think he is going to do with it? Precisely nothing imo. He has no business being in the game.

30 minutes - Who can finish for the USA? Not Robbie Findley. Gomez and/or Buddle need to be in this game. Bradley is blowing it.

35 minutes - You can't win if you can't score. This USA lineup can not score. Robbie Findley is a complete waste. Altidore looks terrible. I would take them both off.

36th minute - Torres actually hits the ball. Nice ave by the Slovenian keeper.

40th minutes - Apparently shooting at gooal is not part of the USA plan.

Goal Slovenia. 2-0.

Turn out the lights, the party is over.

USA could not score 2 goals in 2 games.

HALFTIME - It's over. Slovenia has won. The difference between playing finishers and not playing finishers. Bradley thought he was coaching Spain.

What I wrote last night -

After watching a week of the World Cup, I have become convinced that the new Adidas ball is not conducive to possession-based attacks with long buildups. It is conducive to long runs and passes, and shots from outside the penalty box.

USA should put on the field on the offensive side good shooters and players with pace. That of course means Donovan, Dempsey and Altidore. But, in my view, it does not mean Robbie Findley, who has speed, but no long run potential nor is he a finisher. Edson Buddle is opportunistic and shoots. He should clearly start over Findley (if not Buddle, then Hercules Gomez.)

[. . .] I would play conservative at the back and hope that our stars- Donovan, Dempsey and Altidore - can find ways to shoot, and score.

Given the conditions (including the ball) and the relative skills of the teams, this is, in my view, the best strategy for USA.

I think the first half proved my point.

2nd Half - Bradley brings on Edu and Feilhaber for Findley and Torres. Dempsey moves up. Too little too late imo.

GOOOOAL! Donovan. What a hit.

2-1 now.

60th minute. Bradley needs to bring on another finisher. That means Buddle or Gomez. Probably for Altidore.

70th minute - Good shot from Altidore. Still, Bradley needs to bring on Buddle or Gomez.

75th minute - Time running out.

80th minute - Gomez coming on. Gooch coming off. All in now.

GOOOOOOAAAALLLLLL! Bradley!!! Great play by Altidore.

What a comeback.

ROBBERY!!!

3 minutes extra time.

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  • Display: Sort:
    after a childhood of watching world cup (5.00 / 3) (#18)
    by Jen M on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 09:25:14 AM EST
    with my country nowhere in sight, I am just happy to watch the USA playing in the WC period.

    Yes I want us to win, but they don't have to to make me proud.

    Unless of course they do something horribly embarrassing.

    USA  USA  USA USA

    "I got your finish right here BTD" (5.00 / 4) (#43)
    by magster on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 10:06:00 AM EST
    Sincerely,
    Landon Donovan

    I know he can finish (none / 0) (#48)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 10:08:18 AM EST
    so can Dempsey.

    So can Buddle. So can Gomez.

    Parent

    TIE TIE TIE TIE TIE (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by Jen M on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 10:39:04 AM EST
    BRADLEY

    What was the cal?? (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by LatinoDC on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 10:42:52 AM EST
    told you the ref was awful

    Oh...Bocanegra foul... (none / 0) (#64)
    by LatinoDC on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 10:43:40 AM EST
    Still..that happens in every cross (none / 0) (#65)
    by LatinoDC on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 10:44:35 AM EST
    and never gets called...

    Parent
    except to take (none / 0) (#66)
    by Jen M on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 10:45:54 AM EST
    our goal away sigh

    Parent
    and they were doing the same thing (none / 0) (#75)
    by CST on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 11:03:29 AM EST
    to Dempsey on that play...

    Parent
    Yep...No personality whatsoever (none / 0) (#79)
    by LatinoDC on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 11:33:57 AM EST
    on the part of the ref.  Always favoring the defense.  In this game it was usually Slovenia on the defending side.

    Parent
    The personality comment might (none / 0) (#80)
    by LatinoDC on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 11:35:26 AM EST
    have been a bad translation...

    Parent
    The ref's eyes looked really (none / 0) (#82)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 11:45:06 AM EST
    red and bloodshot.....hangover? health issues?  Will he ever ref another World Cup game after this?  I had seen some bad calls in earlier games, and it seems that the refs are getting some feedback of some kind through their earpieces when video playback is checked because I saw most refs giving what looked to me like some make up calls for their previous bad calls in those same games.  Does this guy just not care?

    Parent
    ROBBED (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by magster on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 10:42:54 AM EST


    What is this? (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by brodie on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 10:58:57 AM EST
    The US coach says no one knows why the ref disallowed that 3d US goal?  Ref not required to explain a call in WC play?

    Coach doesn't know (none / 0) (#73)
    by Jen M on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 11:02:21 AM EST
    may mean he didn't hear the reason or he doesn't believe it and wants to see video...

    Parent
    No one, from the US (none / 0) (#77)
    by brodie on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 11:14:44 AM EST
    coach or team captain on the field nor the announcers seems to have heard an explanation from the ref.  Offsides or a US foul?  No one knows.

    Of course, the standards and practices of FIFA and WC reffing may not require the ref to explain, at any point.  The on-field ref is treated as God, and as for the rest of us, ours is not to reason why ...  

    Parent

    Post-game interview, Donovan said (none / 0) (#95)
    by scribe on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 01:27:13 PM EST
    "the ref wouldn't tell us" what the alleged foul was.

    Between this guy and Mr. Happy Yellow Card in the German game this morning, these World Cup refs are making Jim Joyce look gooood*.

    For a World-level event, the refereeing sucks.

    Watching the Germany game and knowing of the referee corruption problems they've had (a huge scandal in the 2. Bundelsiga a couple years ago, involving gangsters from the Former Yugoslavia fixing matches), I could have been convinced with the touch of a feather that the refs were fixing that game.  

    *  Say it like Will Smith, putting on the suit, in Men in Black.

    Parent

    B.S. call (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by CST on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 11:02:47 AM EST
    I guess I would have been happy with a tie except we WON!!!

    ARgh.

    Oh well, now we want Algeria to beat england.

    But most importantly is that we beat Algeria and England beats Slovenia.  Unless England loses to Algeria in which case we just don't want them to tie Slovenia.

    That wouldn't be too bad actually (5.00 / 2) (#76)
    by LatinoDC on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 11:05:19 AM EST
    unless the tie is 3-3.  US has the tie breaker for having two ties with goals scored.  Let's hope England doesn't beat Algeria by more than 1 and 2, and US has to equal whatever England does agains Algeria.

    Parent
    if this ref keeps it up (none / 0) (#1)
    by Jen M on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 07:23:13 AM EST
    Germany and Serbia will be playing with 5 men each

    MLB Umpire Joyce... (none / 0) (#2)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 07:56:33 AM EST
    has some sh*t the bed officiating company...I saw the Klose play, atrocious card...nobody traveled and tuned in to see you ref...keep the cards in your pocket and let them play!

    Parent
    Not since 1986 -- Bullsnookies (none / 0) (#3)
    by Jen M on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 08:27:18 AM EST
    This is the FIRST TIME re-unified Germany has lost in the opening rounds.

    what a shocker... (none / 0) (#4)
    by LatinoDC on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 08:57:05 AM EST
    can't believe Serbio beat Germany after their performance against Ghana.  US fans are hilarious.

    Serbia* (none / 0) (#5)
    by LatinoDC on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 08:57:23 AM EST
    Dempsey should've been sent off in the first (none / 0) (#6)
    by LatinoDC on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 09:03:50 AM EST
    minute

    Whaaaat? (none / 0) (#7)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 09:06:08 AM EST
    Elbow to the face (none / 0) (#8)
    by LatinoDC on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 09:06:35 AM EST
    Challenge on a 50/50 ball (none / 0) (#10)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 09:09:21 AM EST
    You're being ridiculous.

    Parent
    ESPN deportes and Peruvian announcers (none / 0) (#11)
    by LatinoDC on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 09:12:23 AM EST
    are going nuts about it.  They say that only because the ref is not that experienced he didn't show the red so early in the game.

    Parent
    They are full of sh*t (none / 0) (#15)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 09:17:25 AM EST
    That happens all the time on 50/50 balls.

    Parent
    clearly not intentional (none / 0) (#21)
    by CST on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 09:31:47 AM EST
    maybe a yellow, not a red.

    Parent
    How cold is it there? (none / 0) (#9)
    by magster on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 09:07:12 AM EST
    The coach is wearing a parka.

    Also, what is USA's prospects for advancing if there is a draw?

    It's their winter and, more importantly (none / 0) (#27)
    by scribe on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 09:44:29 AM EST
    they're playing at altitude and in the evening.

    Imagine, say, Flagstaff or Santa Fe in November.

    Parent

    The USAs defense looks very suspect (none / 0) (#12)
    by magster on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 09:14:46 AM EST
    Could be a long morning.  Hopefully Slovenia retreats into a shell and the USA can tie this up.

    USA OFFENSE looks suspect (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 09:16:44 AM EST
    They think they are a European side.

    Possession football is not the way for the USA.

    They need finishers.

    Parent

    Wow. Another early US (none / 0) (#14)
    by brodie on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 09:17:17 AM EST
    defensive lapse.

    Not impressed by this US team at all so far.  Not being ready to mark closely and defend from the opening whistle, and not yet showing any punch whatsoever on offense.

    Is it the very un-US like white stripe across their jerseys, that Euro-looking touch that just doesn't look Murkun?

    I told ya'll so (none / 0) (#16)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 09:18:42 AM EST
    last night.

    Bradley is as much to blame as anyone right now.

    Simply the wrong lineup.

    Parent

    The USA is stinkin' up the joint (none / 0) (#30)
    by scribe on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 09:46:37 AM EST
    almost as badly as the ref in the Germany game did.

    Though the German striker missing a penalty shot didn't help a bit.  That was one of the wussiest Elfmeters I've ever seen.

    Parent

    Nice save USA goalie (none / 0) (#17)
    by magster on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 09:23:07 AM EST
    or was he lucky?

    Slovenia (none / 0) (#19)
    by CST on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 09:29:47 AM EST
    defense is waaay too good.  Or our offense just isn't, this isn't looking pretty.

    No finishers (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 09:31:20 AM EST
    Bradley's lineup is the wrong one.

    Parent
    No finishers anywhere (none / 0) (#38)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 09:56:43 AM EST
    Gotta tip my hat (none / 0) (#22)
    by brodie on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 09:34:50 AM EST
    to the Slovenes so far -- and espec b/c they represent the smallest country in the tourney, going up against the US as the largest population- wise.  Apparently tiny Slovenia knocked out the beastly Russkies in the qualifying round?

    Going to take a few minutes at the halftime break to read up a bit about this previously unknown little country located somewhere in the Balkans perhaps ...

    USA executes free kicks well (none / 0) (#23)
    by magster on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 09:37:54 AM EST
    they should flop all around the Slovenian box on offense as their main strategy.

    this ref is awful (none / 0) (#24)
    by LatinoDC on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 09:41:06 AM EST
    terrible yellow card for Findley.  Apparently his face is part of his arm.  US look a lot better now.

    Parent
    That will be disputed (none / 0) (#37)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 09:55:09 AM EST
    Not that it matters if we lose this game.

    Parent
    AHHHH (none / 0) (#25)
    by CST on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 09:41:20 AM EST
    how can you miss that!!!

    well we are getting our chances.  And BTD gets Findley out of the next game.

    Donovan should have slid into that goal (none / 0) (#28)
    by magster on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 09:44:32 AM EST
    and then they score.  Such is the difference between 1-1 and 2-0....

    Parent
    that was terrible (none / 0) (#33)
    by CST on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 09:51:27 AM EST
    he hits that ball with his pinky toe and it's a goal.

    Our defense is stinking up the joint just getting burnes and our offense can't finish.  Whoopie though, we can control the ball at midfield...

    Parent

    This is precisely what I feared (none / 0) (#35)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 09:53:11 AM EST
    Bradley is clueless.

    Parent
    aaaaaaaand (none / 0) (#26)
    by CST on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 09:42:38 AM EST
    2-0.

    Ugh

    Findley is god aweful (none / 0) (#29)
    by progrocks on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 09:46:15 AM EST
    no clue how to finish

    This is a surprise to who? (none / 0) (#32)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 09:51:22 AM EST
    Why is Bradley playing him?

    Parent
    I doubt if this (none / 0) (#31)
    by brodie on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 09:50:39 AM EST
    very solid and disciplined Slovenia team is going to give up two goals.  And certainly not to this anemic US team.

    The US will be lucky to score one no-doubter when it still matters, though even that would be something positive they can take away from today's disaster.

    There is nothing positve from any of this (none / 0) (#34)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 09:52:06 AM EST
    The USA has been eliminated from the World Cup.

    Parent
    I don't think we could suck (none / 0) (#36)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 09:53:26 AM EST
    more but I'm probably wrong.  No marking up.  Very disappointed in Altidore.  If BTD is right about our penchant for possession, Altidore doesn't seem to know what to do if the game isn't about that.  I really expected Novakovic would score on us first because of how badly we were marking him, but it was Birsa....who we hardly marked any better.  We came out of the tunnel flat footed as hell.

    At least I didn't use a sick day... (none / 0) (#39)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 10:03:35 AM EST
    lest I would be puking if I was watching this debacle.

    I don't think Howard is 100% (none / 0) (#40)
    by LatinoDC on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 10:04:08 AM EST
    wasn't he injured? I think he could've done a little more in the first goal, and he comes out in the second one as if the striker was a lefty

    Broken rib (none / 0) (#47)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 10:08:15 AM EST
    He's receiving injections for pain.  Don't know what sort though.

    Parent
    What a goal!!!! (none / 0) (#41)
    by LatinoDC on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 10:04:53 AM EST


    so nice (none / 0) (#46)
    by Jen M on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 10:07:03 AM EST
    so purty

    Parent
    and (none / 0) (#42)
    by CST on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 10:05:28 AM EST
    we're back in the game!

    Hey, there you are. (none / 0) (#45)
    by brodie on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 10:06:50 AM EST
    A no-doubter, and early on in the 2d half.

    Still a chance in this one, amazingly.

    Parent

    And then we come out (none / 0) (#44)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 10:06:22 AM EST
    and make an impossible strike.  It's the American way.

    We have a horrible ref (none / 0) (#49)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 10:21:32 AM EST


    smart foul (none / 0) (#50)
    by CST on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 10:28:32 AM EST
    by Slovenia...

    Although I might have given that a red card.

    Too many scoring chances wasted (none / 0) (#51)
    by magster on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 10:28:50 AM EST


    20 minutes to go.... (none / 0) (#52)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 10:31:06 AM EST
    who's gonna equalize this puppy?  C'mon fellas, you don't wanna get beat by Slovenia!

    Hercules!!! (none / 0) (#53)
    by LatinoDC on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 10:36:51 AM EST


    Make BTD look smart Gomez.... (none / 0) (#57)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 10:39:19 AM EST
    3 up front for the last 10 minutes...find the net you sons of b*tches!

    Parent
    Nice finish! (none / 0) (#54)
    by LatinoDC on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 10:39:02 AM EST


    Yeah baby (none / 0) (#56)
    by magster on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 10:39:11 AM EST
    What a comeback!!!

    papa must be proud! (none / 0) (#58)
    by CST on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 10:40:45 AM EST
    one more....

    One more! One more! One more! n/t (none / 0) (#59)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 10:41:44 AM EST
    Wow. The equalizer -- (none / 0) (#60)
    by brodie on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 10:41:44 AM EST
    and from the coach's son no less.

    Completely different US team this 2d half.

    Meanwhile, the Slovenes look human on defense.

    Now, the last 12 nervous minutes ...

    nervous? (none / 0) (#61)
    by Jen M on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 10:42:30 AM EST
    Understatement

    Parent
    C'mon one more scoring chance (none / 0) (#67)
    by magster on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 10:49:01 AM EST


    Ouch! (none / 0) (#68)
    by magster on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 10:50:31 AM EST


    could have been (none / 0) (#69)
    by Jen M on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 10:52:26 AM EST
    worse

    Awful ref (none / 0) (#71)
    by LatinoDC on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 10:55:26 AM EST
    The guy just didn't want to ref...he just wanted to make the call that had no consequences on the game, even if it was the wrong call.  

    Parent
    And its a draw... (none / 0) (#70)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 10:54:09 AM EST
    a live to fight Algeria draw.  Lets hope they can hang with England.

    Bradley looked like he (none / 0) (#78)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 11:21:22 AM EST
    could cry at times during the interview I saw.  Said something about Birsa slipped in the gap, talk about denial...it was a canyon out there all during the first half, not a gap.  Howard pulling on jerseys before he went long trying to get them downfield because they all started playing for the tie at the end.  That really disappoints me when I see that and our team does it all the damn time. It sucks getting a goal stolen and I still don't understand how it is that we don't know what the actual call was.  I don't know how that is possible.  But my coach always said that if you can claim the refs beat you, your game sucked.

    Heartstopper! Unable to look away till now .... (none / 0) (#81)
    by Ellie on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 11:42:49 AM EST
    Oh, man, we were frozen to the screen for this one. Unanimous suspicion during first half that the SLCV goal had a plexi-glass front of some sort ... perhaps  forcefield?

    Hope USA tightens up that porous D for their next match.

    Here's my guess... (none / 0) (#83)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 12:04:07 PM EST
    the ref knew, after the fact, that the foul he awarded that set up the penalty kick should not have been awarded, therefor he couldn't allow the goal that resulted.

    Make up call.... (none / 0) (#84)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 12:53:46 PM EST
    good guess man.

    We wuz robbed though...based on what I'm reading we got the short end of more calls than Slovenia.

    Parent

    Well if that was his (none / 0) (#85)
    by brodie on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 12:56:31 PM EST
    thinking, he only ended up making the situation worse by making an even more egregious phantom non-foul call as a "make up" for the first non-foul minor error.

    Normally experienced refs will wait a bit (there was still plenty of time), for appearances sake, and on the other end of the field find a substantially similar situation in which to render one make up call (or a couple of smaller calls) to equalize things for the sake of justice and fair play.

    Apparently this guy had a controversial time of reffing in the Africa Cup Final earlier this year, and today was his first World Cup match.  

    The inexperience showed.  Though I feel kinda badly for him.

    Parent

    Feel bad for him... (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 01:10:59 PM EST
    after he stands up and apologizes like Joyce...we got Galarraga'd.

    I won't hold my breath.

    Parent

    Well, hey, first WC match, (none / 0) (#92)
    by brodie on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 01:23:17 PM EST
    c'mon folks.  Probably nervous.  And just one guy to cover that huge area -- in the US major sports you've got a similar sized field covered with 4-5 refs.  

    I feel for him in that sense.  (And, yeah, I probably have a built-in weakness for things and people Malian.  Great ancient country with Timbukto -- the coolest place-name on the planet -- and that mysterious Dogon tribe with their peculiar star knowledge.)

    Though for sure I'd like to see him or FIFA explain the call.

    It's just that I think there's a tradition in WC play for the ref not to have to explain, justify, or say anything about a call during or after the game.  Vy different from US sports.


    Parent

    I hear ya... (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 02:01:23 PM EST
    I'm certainly not gonna go lookin' for the guys email address to send him a nasty-gram...its just a game, and people are born to err.

    And I'll be right there with ya feelin' sympathy if he apologizes.  But not right now:)

    Parent

    You are a compassionate soul. (none / 0) (#94)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 01:25:41 PM EST
    Not true (none / 0) (#96)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 01:29:39 PM EST
    There have been plenty of formal disputes in World Cups about ref calls.  Portugal has formally disputed Ronaldo's yellow card for drama queen of the year.

    Parent
    The formal post-game (none / 0) (#105)
    by brodie on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 01:43:44 PM EST
    appeal process through FIFA is a little different matter.

    I was referring to the real time and immediate post-game situation with the ref:  unlike most American sports, there is (to my knowledge) no tradition with WC/FIFA futbol where a ref is required  to offer up an explanation for a call.  The whistle blows, the call is made, and there is no discussion about it.  The ref isn't required to meet up on field with the captain of the offended team to explain it, nor do you see the ref go over to the sideline (as with most US sports) to explain it to the coach.

    Parent

    You don't fight with a ref on the field (none / 0) (#111)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 01:49:38 PM EST
    because you don't want a card, and that's about the only reason why :)

    Parent
    That's why you scream at him (none / 0) (#112)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 01:50:15 PM EST
    when the game is over :)

    Parent
    It is a stark contrast though (none / 0) (#115)
    by brodie on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 02:00:19 PM EST
    when you look at the WC reffing situation vs US team sports reffing.  Here, every call is clearly explained to participants and spectators alike, with our specific, numerous referee hand signals for each sport designating a given infraction.  Everyone is clear what has been called, though we may disagree about whether in fact it was a good call.

    But in WC soccer, you basically have a whistle then only one all-purpose hand-arm signal from the ref (pointing out which team has the free kick, or where the kick will be) and that's it.  No separate signals for dangerous play or offsides or unsportsmanlike, etc, nor is there anything in the rules or tradition of WC soccer requiring a verbal explanation of why the whistle was blown.

    Parent

    The clock doesn't stop (none / 0) (#117)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 02:05:51 PM EST
    though in soccer.  It isn't like other sports in that respect and that is why in my opinion you play on.  It has nothing to do with "extra" respect granted refs.  It may have something to do with not unloading the stands onto the field for applications of a little violence.  World soccer fans are a violent bunch.  Imagine if fights broke out over calls and the clock was stopped, you might never get that damn thing started again.

    Parent
    I agree, (none / 0) (#87)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 01:07:14 PM EST
    if he felt he needed to make up for a lame call, he should have done it in a similar-type situation at the other end of the field.

    Parent
    Huh? (none / 0) (#86)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 01:03:36 PM EST
    HALFTIME - It's over. Slovenia has won.


    Parent
    That was a pissed off fan (none / 0) (#90)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 01:12:28 PM EST
    writing, not an official calling a game.

    My huh was actually on the theory that the free kick was improperly awarded. Where do you get that from?

    Parent

    My theory is that the ref second-guessed (none / 0) (#93)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 01:24:10 PM EST
    his awarding the foul that resulted in the free kick.

    Parent
    Ah (none / 0) (#98)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 01:34:02 PM EST
    Well I do not know why he would have second guessed it. It was actually one of the few calls he got right.

    My gawd, in the video I  have added above, after the botched goal call, Gomez gets knocked down and the ref calls nothing.

    The better theory is he just stinks.

    Parent

    Look at the :59 second mark... (none / 0) (#100)
    by steviez314 on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 01:36:58 PM EST
    Bocanegra (#3) DOES have his arms wrapped all the way around the guy in front of him.  In fact he falls down trying to pull him down.

    It's kind of iffy, since Altidore and Bradley are similarly wrapped up, but it's the only possible foul.

    Parent

    I don't see (none / 0) (#102)
    by CST on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 01:40:44 PM EST
    how you call that one and miss the other two.

    Parent
    I do not see that at all (none / 0) (#103)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 01:42:02 PM EST
    I DO see Bradley bear hugged as well as Altidore.

    I see Bocanegra grappling with a red headed guy but to no effect.

    Parent

    Beyond that (none / 0) (#104)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 01:43:38 PM EST
    That had no effect on the play (and I really do not see what you write. I see two guys pushing each other and one guy falling.)

    Parent
    Looking at it again (none / 0) (#108)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 01:46:09 PM EST
    Actually I think that is another foul on the Slovenians.

    There is no foul by Bocanegra at all in that sequence.

    Parent

    This video shows it (none / 0) (#123)
    by steviez314 on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 05:02:08 PM EST
    Link

    Look at the :10 second mark or so.  You can see Bocanegra's got #7 in a bear hug.

    Is it worse than any other contact or foul?  Beats me--but if the referee is looking right at that area and not any other, and wants to make up for the other call, he has an excuse.

    Parent

    It simply does not show that (none / 0) (#124)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 06:27:05 PM EST
    Try just focusing on Bocanegra, esp if you see (none / 0) (#110)
    by steviez314 on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 01:48:00 PM EST
    it on a TV..also ESPN showed a reverse angle shot that seemed clearer.

    It's iffy as I said..but if the ref said that was the foul, at least then I could chalk it up to being super-conservative or a make-up call.

    If he would say it was anything else, then it's just more of the Bush legacy.

    Parent

    Looked closely (none / 0) (#114)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 01:53:12 PM EST
    And unless reverse angle shows something different, not buying it at all.

    Parent
    Well, MSNBC Sports picked it up too: (none / 0) (#126)
    by steviez314 on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 06:48:16 PM EST
    It was unclear to the U.S. what Coulibaly actually called. At the time of the whistle, American captain Carlos Bocanegra, who was a few feet away from Edu, did have an arm around Nejc Pecnik, preventing the Slovene from jumping for the ball.



    Parent
    Ok (none / 0) (#109)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 01:46:39 PM EST
    I can buy that.

    Parent
    From the NYT:
    The biggest [Koman Coulibaly controversial call] came with the score tied, 2-2, in the 85th minute, and a United States free kick from the right side, just outside the area.

    Landon Donovan sent it into an onrushing wave of Americans, and Maurice Edu redirected it in for what seemed to be the go-ahead goal.

    But Coulibaly nullified it, ruling an American foul on the play.

    Television replays showed no American foul; rather, at least two Americans were being pulled down by Slovene defenders.

    Odder yet, the foul that led to the free kick was another error by Coulibaly. United States striker Jozy Altidore ran right into a Slovene defender and fell theatrically, fooling Coulibaly into blowing his whistle.

    It is unclear whether Coulibaly waved off the subsequent United States goal as a sort of makeup call for having awarded the Americans a free kick they didn't deserve.



    Parent
    Yeah, when I so the reply (none / 0) (#119)
    by LatinoDC on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 03:42:00 PM EST
    the second time I saw the foul the ref called (on Bocanegra) and mentioned it in a previous comment.  However, that doesn't really get called, it happens in any cross.  The ref had been making the easy call (foul in favor of the defending side whenever there was any contact on the box) all game, and he did the same here...that's why I think he's an awful ref, he's just trying to avoid any problems.  To his credit, he made the call before the goal occured.  

    Parent
    Isn't it more reasonable (none / 0) (#97)
    by AlkalineDave on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 01:33:12 PM EST
    to think England beats Algeria and then will hopefully shut out Slovenia?  This isn't hard to imagine because of Slovenia's 5000 yellow cards.  Meanwhile, if we score 2 on Algeria and win, we win the tie on goals scored, right?

    I would rather have Algeria at 1 point (none / 0) (#99)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 01:36:03 PM EST
    England at 2 points.

    Especially if England scores less than 2 goals.

    Then the US could get through with a win over Algeria OR a draw with Algeria with England drawing Slovenia with less goals scored than USA.

    Parent

    Yeah (none / 0) (#113)
    by AlkalineDave on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 01:51:10 PM EST
    I guess we could keep our fingers crossed for an England lose/draw.  I'm guessing it will come down to England shutting out Slovenia at which point I will become the biggest American England fan. I definitely think we have the potential to pull off +2 goals on Algeria.

    Parent
    as long as we beat Algeria (none / 0) (#101)
    by CST on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 01:38:13 PM EST
    there are many ways to qualify for the next round (at least in the 2nd seed)

    If England beats Algeria, they can either win or lose against Slovenia and we are automatically in.  If they tie Slovenia it comes down to # of goals.

    If England loses to Algeria, and either ties or loses to Slovenia we are in.  If they lose to Algeria and beat Slovenia it comes down to goals again.

    If we lose or tie with Algeria, it doesn't look good, unless England somehow manages to tie both games too and then it comes down to goals.  Let's hope this isn't the scenario we are looking for.

    Parent

    Yes to your last part (none / 0) (#106)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 01:45:43 PM EST
    If we beat Algeria by two we would win the tie using goal differential.

    Parent
    Looking at how Algeria played against Slovenia and (none / 0) (#120)
    by LatinoDC on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 03:44:23 PM EST
    Algeria, I think Slovenia has looked the best in the group so far, and Algeria is not so bad.  It will be a tough game for the US.  Algeria also has chances of advancing, so they will also be playing for something.

    Parent
    Slovenia (none / 0) (#121)
    by AlkalineDave on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 03:57:04 PM EST
    has quite a few yellow cards on them now.  I don't think that bodes well for them on Wednesday.

    Parent
    I hear the name Lennon (none / 0) (#118)
    by brodie on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 02:12:22 PM EST
    called for one of the players on the England side, and I keep wanting to also hear the name McCartney ...

    Soccer money question (none / 0) (#125)
    by samtaylor2 on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 06:27:23 PM EST
    In soccer there are no commercial breaks.  So how does soccer make any money on TV (vs. Football which is designed for TV)

    Adds in the sidelines and goallines, TV rights, (none / 0) (#128)
    by LatinoDC on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 07:30:31 PM EST
    Sponsors on the jerseys, etc.

    Parent
    Expedited performance review of (none / 0) (#127)
    by oculus on Fri Jun 18, 2010 at 07:05:04 PM EST
    ref. re controversial call?link