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Tuesday Afternoon Open Thread

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Blog Related
Posted on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 03:28:17 PM EST
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For those who enjoyed my sweating over my sports investment last night, you won't get another chance tonight, as I am traveling. But, you can laugh at me without the pointing as I invested in the Wolverines (-3) over Va Tech (10 units.) I know, I know, the BIG in a bowl game? But I like this Michigan team and don't think much of Va Tech.

Open Thread.

< Monday Night Open Thread | Overhyped Iowa Caucuses Underway >

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    Tuesday Afternoon Open Thread | 68 comments (68 topical)

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    Least worst? (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by Edger on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 03:36:26 PM EST
    So, I take it that - hypothetically speaking for the sake of clarification of the "argument" - if Rick Santorum was the republican nominee and Joe Lieberman was the democratic nominee, the "lesser of two evils" crowd would either be worshipping Joe or switching parties?

    Have I got that about right?

    jeez (5.00 / 3) (#2)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 03:49:48 PM EST
    I was having fun.  whydja havta do that.

    Parent
    For fun ;-) (5.00 / 0) (#3)
    by Edger on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 03:51:44 PM EST


    Parent
    A Dem party that nominated Lieberman would (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by ruffian on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 04:15:14 PM EST
    be lacking any pretense at being different than the GOP. Switch away!

    Parent
    I wouldn't worship Lieberman (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 04:38:26 PM EST
    in that situation, but I'd vote for him.

    As ridiculous as Lieberman is, there is a difference between Lieberman and any republican on most issues.

    I can't stand Lieberman, but that's IMHO correct nonetheless.

    Parent

    Of course you'd vote for Lieberman (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by lentinel on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 05:02:16 PM EST
    "...what I know is, Joe Lieberman's a man with a good heart, with a keen intellect, who cares about the working families of America."
    "I am absolutely certain that Connecticut's going to have the good sense to send Joe Lieberman back to the United States Senate."
    - Obama shilling for Lieberman in 2006.

    That's Obama.
    Doing what he could to ingratiate himself with the entrenched Democrats.  Doing what he could to deny the Democratic nomination to a person who was running to end the war in Iraq  - in favor of a decrepit and dangerous fool.

    Of course you'd vote for Lieberman.

    Parent

    Lieberman is just a corrupt neocon a$$hat (5.00 / 3) (#14)
    by shoephone on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 05:17:50 PM EST
    with a God complex. See: 2006 Senate Campaign; Connecticut For Lieberman.

    Anyway, it's a moot point, a fantasy of major proportions. He could never win for president. Too many American Jews like me hate him.

    Parent

    How I met Joe Lieberman (5.00 / 5) (#20)
    by Peter G on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 05:44:52 PM EST
    It is 1992, New Haven, a rally for Clinton, featuring Hillary in person, under a tent in the Italian neighborhood of town, and featuring New Haven's famous pizza from Pepe's and Sally's.  With our three girls, then 10, 6, and 2, we have staked out a little table and gotten our pizza.  When we had barely begun to munch, we see it is time to hit the rope line for a photo op of the girls greeting Hillary.  We make a break for the rope, get our pix.  When we return to the table, there is U.S. Senator Joe Lieberman, sitting with a couple of friends or family (can't remember who or how many), eating our pizza.  Trying to be nice, we point out that he has sat down at our table and has commenced eating our children's supper.  He denies it, and resumes munching. My opinion of him, formed at that time, has never changed, nor have I seen the slightest reason to change it.

    Parent
    Wow. (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by shoephone on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 06:05:36 PM EST
    Just wow.

    Parent
    Neither one of my senators (none / 0) (#48)
    by shoephone on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 08:47:10 PM EST
    would have done that. Guaranteed. Nor would my House rep. Lieberman is a frigging nutcase.

    Parent
    Maybe somehow he could tell (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by Peter G on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 08:54:02 PM EST
    that we weren't constituents.

    Parent
    Hahahahaha! (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by Zorba on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 06:20:51 PM EST
    Well, Peter, that seems to sum up Lieberman quite well.  ("Denial" isn't just a river in Egypt!)  I hope that you bought your daughters some more pizza!

    Parent
    We did. (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by Peter G on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 07:51:03 PM EST
    Although the pizza he stole from their little mouths had been gratis, courtesy of the campaign. Is it necessary, I wonder, to be a successful politician, to have a narcissistic personality disorder?

    Parent
    Pretty much. (none / 0) (#37)
    by Zorba on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 07:54:52 PM EST
    Unfortunately, yes.

    Parent
    Lol. A real piece of work,that one (none / 0) (#52)
    by ruffian on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 09:08:30 PM EST
    As my aunt would say.

    Parent
    Most issues? I don't think so. (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by ruffian on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 05:35:17 PM EST


    Parent
    Hypothetically speaking, I would have to (5.00 / 2) (#46)
    by Anne on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 08:45:39 PM EST
    hope that if Santorum and Lieberman were the only choices, it would be because they were the only humans "left behind."

    Which would really tell us all we'd need to know about them, don't you think?

    Seriously, though, if we keep kidding ourselves that the least worst candidate is always worth voting for, it will eventually come down to a Santorum/Lieberman-type choice.

    The eyes-wide-shut crowd will be the last ones to "see" that.

    Parent

    Yes, and.... (none / 0) (#54)
    by Edger on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 09:13:03 PM EST
    I guess it would also tell us all we'd need to know about people who would fall for making a choice like that, wouldn't it?

    Parent
    Interesting (none / 0) (#28)
    by Edger on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 06:37:33 PM EST
    Let's try it this way...

    So, I take it that - hypothetically speaking for the sake of clarification of the "argument" - if ------a------ was the republican nominee and ------b------ was the democratic nominee, the "lesser of two evils" crowd would either be worshipping ------b------ or switching parties?

    Yes?

    Parent

    Let there be entertainment tonight (5.00 / 8) (#5)
    by ruffian on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 04:20:44 PM EST
    It's my birthday! But I'm too dragged out from the holidays to go out, so I am depending on the GOP circus.

    If you get Current TV, the Young Turks show is good, and Jennifer Granholm is going to have a political talk show too.  Still won't watch KO. Can't make me.

    Circuses are fun (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 04:31:54 PM EST
    for all ages---Happy Birthday, young turk.

    Parent
    Happy Birthday, fellow Capricorn! (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by jbindc on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 04:42:40 PM EST
    (January 8th, here).

    Do something fun - not fill your brain space with caucuses or political talk shows!

    Parent

    Ah, Elvis's b-day! (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by ruffian on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 05:26:56 PM EST
    I get Dabney Coleman. Good enough!

    I got some Fanny May chocolates from a friend. I behaved myself over the holidays as far as junk food , TV, and drinking go. Might go for the trifecta!

    Parent

    Hey, ruffian, Happy Birthday! (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by caseyOR on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 06:39:02 PM EST
    You didn't just get Dabney Coleman, you got my sister too. I was just on the phone relaying my birthday greetings to her.

    Relax, take it easy. If you feel like partying, well, I consider that the entire month of January is my birthday, even though the actual official date is the 31st. So, no reason you can't appropriate the entire month, too, and party at will.

    Parent

    Also my best friend from high school's husband (none / 0) (#42)
    by ruffian on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 08:30:45 PM EST
    All good company!

    Parent
    Happy Birthday! (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by shoephone on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 05:20:21 PM EST
    I'll toast you. I just bought a set of new shot glasses New Year's day...

    Parent
    Happy birthday! You are sooo high (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by oculus on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 06:03:51 PM EST
    my list of favorites.  

    Parent
    Happy Birthday ruffian! (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by Dr Molly on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 07:08:29 PM EST


    Parent
    Happy Birthday, ruffian! (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by Anne on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 07:36:50 PM EST
    Hope it's been a good day, and the start of a good year; if you haven't blown out the candles yet, maybe you could wish for this political season to not resemble the worst middle-school election ever, and for the media to not treat what appears to be a coming tsunami of completely-missing-the-point nonsense as what's really important.  I mean, why not - sometimes birthday wishes come true, right?

    But you might have more luck wishing for the winning numbers in the next Powerball/MegaMillions drawing, lol...

    Anyway - toasting you with a nice merlot, and hoping you're having a great birthday!

    Parent

    Happy B-Day ruffian!! (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by desertswine on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 08:25:57 PM EST


    Parent
    Thank you everyone! (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by ruffian on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 08:28:58 PM EST
    It's been a good day. We are having some nice cold weather, some work friends took me to lunch, got some delicious Fanny May chocolates in the mail, just spent some time on the phone with an old roommate.....Facebook reminded some more friends...

    Had some tequila virtually with Capt. Howdy, and some Cabernet with the wine drinkers as I watch the Iowa commentary on Current.

    And all of your kind and  funny wishes.

    No candles, but as Anne suggests I will wish for some political sanity this year. And maybe winning the lottery.

    Parent

    Happy Ruffian Day! (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by Edger on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 10:06:40 PM EST
    And here's to many more!

    I sort of got to a point a few years ago where I started telling people every year that my birthday was yesterday so they couldn't keep me up past my bedtime. I hope that never happens to you... ;-)

    Parent

    Dang, Late to the party (5.00 / 3) (#63)
    by sj on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 10:40:01 PM EST
    Hope it was a wonderful one.  Happy Birthday.

    Parent
    Well Jennifer Granholm -- (none / 0) (#9)
    by brodie on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 04:41:44 PM EST
    my kinda pol turned political analyst/cable host.  I can watch her for hours, and probably will.

    Cinq Unger -- he's a little too much the overly emotional Ed Schultz of Current TV.  The Young Turks is also too heavily skewed to male expert panelists and guests and almost all of them white (from an unscientific sampling of three shows).

    KO -- he's the Johnny Carson of Current:  always on vacation.

    Parent

    I agree with your reservations about Cenk (none / 0) (#19)
    by ruffian on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 05:42:09 PM EST
    It was true of his podcast too. I do like JR his producer, who is black, and chimes in now and then. The only regular woman is Ana who always did cultural commentary. Seemed like the woman was regulated to that beat.  All and all his fan base seems to skew young. But I still like his show better than most. He does not use the same guests you see on all the other shows.

    Parent
    Agreed The Young Turks Show (none / 0) (#25)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 06:12:09 PM EST
    is very interesting, offering intelligent new faces, a pleasant change from the likes of Howard Fineman et al.  Regulars Ben Mankiewicz (son of Frank, JKF's press secretary) is particularly good, as is Michael Shure.  The guests are good, from a "recovering Republican" new comer to the show, to always insightful, Glen Greenwald.   It is true, that Cenk can get emotional, but, for me, he wears a lot better than Ed Schultz.  And, he has been diversifying--a Professor from Brown University was a great addition. Also, I like Cenk's sense of integrity, leaving MSNBC on the basis that he did not want a pro-establishment show.

    Parent
    They are doing a great job, IMO (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by ruffian on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 07:34:41 PM EST
    Where else are you going to find Al Gore on the panel? The professor from Brown was very insightful too.

    They asked Gore if he ever cried on the campaign trail. he said he didn't think so, and they all chimed in, 'well, we cried for you ' and were laughing. It was good.

    Parent

    Note: make that RFK's press secretary, (none / 0) (#30)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 07:07:31 PM EST
    not JKF.  

    Parent
    I see Cenks emotions as a lot more honest (none / 0) (#34)
    by ruffian on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 07:36:49 PM EST
    reactionshonest reactions than Shultz's, who always seems stagy folksie to me.

    Parent
    happy birthday (none / 0) (#11)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 04:51:33 PM EST
    you get an honorary shot.

    Parent
    Salud! Just joined you. (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by ruffian on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 05:34:39 PM EST


    Parent
    I have already (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 04:33:10 PM EST
    started shots of tequila.  its really good tequila too.

    Pee Wee (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 10:26:55 PM EST
    is gonna take this sucker.

    It's enough to make you cry... (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by Edger on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 10:37:09 PM EST
    600-Pound Butter Cow Sculpture Wins Iowa Caucus

    DES MOINES, IA--With a majority of precincts reporting, sources have confirmed a 600-pound recreation of a dairy cow sculpted entirely from freshly churned butter has won the 2012 Iowa Caucus.
    [snip]
    "For one thing, I'm more familiar and comfortable with the butter cow," said Iowa voter Horace Wright, who cited the creamy sculpture's even demeanor, its pro-agriculture agenda, and the fact that it's not Mitt Romney as his primary reasons for voting for it.


    Parent
    wow (none / 0) (#64)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 10:56:31 PM EST
    IMO, with a Santorum win, or a loss by 20 votes, and Gingrichs promise to dedicate his life to destroying Romney for him, this becomes a whole new race.

    I dont think Romney is the presumptive nominee anymore.  Santorum is going to do better than expected in NH, he may just win SC.  this is wide open.  wow


    Parent

    Personally (none / 0) (#67)
    by Edger on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 09:23:47 AM EST
    it wouldn't surprise me to find out that the entire republican strategy is one big choreographed kabuki to make them all look as ridiculous as possible to re-elect Obama. He's the best republican candidate there is, and why blow a good thing when you've got it?

    Rememeber this?

    Parent

    on a non election topic (none / 0) (#12)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 04:57:17 PM EST
    I love these commercials.

    one

    two

    three

    genius.  unforgettable.  ridiculously cheap.  hilarious.

    Quite heartwarming BTD is risking his (none / 0) (#22)
    by oculus on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 06:05:12 PM EST
    hard-earned dollars on the Wolverines.  

    You have been found worthy :) (none / 0) (#65)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 11:53:46 PM EST


    Parent
    Since (none / 0) (#24)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 06:08:20 PM EST
    I can't seem to get enough of the clown circus today for some reason, what time are the caucus results going to be rolling in?

    It's over: Romney is the inevitable nominee (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by andgarden on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 07:35:46 PM EST


    Parent
    I agree but the circus can be fun even if you know (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by ruffian on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 08:21:12 PM EST
    the clowns are going to pop out of the car.

    Parent
    ... clowns... ::shudders:: (none / 0) (#62)
    by sj on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 10:38:33 PM EST
    The part that keeps me away from watching the trapeze artists.

    Parent
    How excited are they... (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by christinep on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 09:17:01 PM EST
    Those Iowa Repubs, that is?  Seriously  one would think that with the supposed "enthusiasm gap" ( ?) we've been fed all year, the turnout for Repubs would definitely exceed the previous caucus in 'o8 substantially.  

    So,what is the message if the turnout numbers are lackluster despite the hype; and, what does it say if Mitt can't exceed his 30,000 number from four years ago even with years of dogged trying?

    Parent

    they just said on CNN (none / 0) (#56)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 09:28:33 PM EST
    that turnout is not going to be very impressive.  another good sign for Santorum.  and Eric Ericson was just talking about how conservatives sense blood in the water as far as Romney is concerned and money is going to start flowing to Santorum faster than he can spend it.

    Parent
    Nobody else breaks out of the pack (none / 0) (#47)
    by andgarden on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 08:46:03 PM EST
    Who is to answer when Romney romps in NH? No one.

    Parent
    Yup, that's what I figure (none / 0) (#50)
    by ruffian on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 09:05:19 PM EST
    If Romney wins outright or ties it means he did not get beat even with everyone not liking him that much.

    Gore thinks Santorum gets some momentum with the Fox team on his side, but his baggage is going to catch up to him.

    Parent

    I agree with Gore (none / 0) (#53)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 09:09:25 PM EST
    and in this field "baggage" is very relative.

    Parent
    heres a thought (none / 0) (#51)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 09:08:15 PM EST
    with less than 1% separating 1st and 3rd place if Perry and or Bachman (with a combined 16% of the current 30% reported) drop out and endorse Santorum it could get very interesting.

    I dont think its over at all.  the very conservative western counties have not reported at all yet.  a good % of the population and likely Santorum country.  I still think it could be a big night for Santorum.  heck, it already is.  he is going to be the story coming out of this even if he is second.

    Parent

    entrance polls (none / 0) (#27)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 06:22:05 PM EST
    or whatever they are called start in about 45 minutes.  8 eastern.  not sure when results start.


    Parent
    IMO (none / 0) (#57)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 09:46:19 PM EST
    there is a fundamental flaw in the spin I am hearing on cable about what is starting to look like a very possible Santorum win.  they are saying that he has no organization no infrastructure blah blah.  he cant possibly do what he needs to do to be competitive blah blah.
    perhaps.  but if he wins I think he could very well, tomorrow morning, have about 10 million rich right wingers who combined have all the experience and staff and infrastructure, who hate Romney and who are eager to do whatever is necessary to get him what he wants.
    I think if Romney thinks he wants Santorum to do well and not X or Y, he should be careful what he wishes for.
    wow (none / 0) (#59)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 10:19:02 PM EST
    92% reporting and 13 votes separating Romney and Santorum

    Funny story from yesterday (none / 0) (#66)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 08:47:49 AM EST
    My husband had a new class yesterday and to break the ice he asked everyone if anyone got a great Christmas present.  He said nobody spoke up.

    For some reason my husband hated the Lexus Christmas commercial, he asked me numerous times who gets a Lexus for Christmas?  I was busy.  I was tired of hearing about it.  I just shrugged and moved along.

    So he asks his class if anyone got a Lexus, did they get a little box that played the song when they shook it and then they knew their present was sitting in the driveway?  He said finally his class lightened up and laughed a little.  Then he asked, "Who gets a Lexus for Christmas"?  Someone yells out, "Rich People"!

    My husband says he raised an eyebrow and said, "One Percenters huh"?  You guys are one percenters and NONE OF YOU got a Lexus?

    Gordon Hirabayashi dies at 93 (none / 0) (#68)
    by Yman on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 04:19:45 PM EST
    Japanese-American who bravely refused to be interned during WWII.

    More guns, less crime (none / 0) (#69)
    by diogenes on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 10:39:13 PM EST
    "Oklahoma Mother, 18, Kills Intruder Breaking Into Her Home While on Phone With 911"

    It's ridiculous to draw that conclusion ... (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by Yman on Thu Jan 05, 2012 at 07:52:55 AM EST
    ... from a single incident, ...

    ... but at least Mary Rosh agrees with you.


    Parent

    No kidding (none / 0) (#71)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jan 05, 2012 at 08:55:03 AM EST
    We do have a gun in the house now.  We bought our son this fancy BB gun for Christmas.  Cool sights, the whole nine yards, it looks like an assault rifle.  I want him to do more outdoor things.  He is limited.  He always will be, but boys love doing the BB gun target thing.  And the gun has no kick.

    Watching the news last night.  Did you see the kid who had pellet gun fashioned to look like a real handgun, and the police blew him away for it.  We looked at each other....Holy Phuck

    Parent

    I saw that (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by Yman on Thu Jan 05, 2012 at 09:58:34 AM EST
    What a sad story.  I can't fault the police - as horrible as it was, it looks like a justified shooting.

    My son also wanted a fancy BB/airsoft gun a few years ago when he was @ Josh's age.  We didn't get one - not because of any moral objection - but because we live in a town in a fairly densely populated area ... just hard to find places to shoot it.  I actually have two rifles that I've owned since I was a teenager, but haven't fired them in years because we have to drive @ 45 minutes to find an outdoor range.  When I was a kid in small-town PA, we used to buy ammo at the town gas station and just walk out of town (gun loaded) to go target shooting in the woods.  Don't think that would go over so well, now.

    But boys do love shooting and it is a great outdoor activity for someone who's limited.  It's also one of the few activities that both father and teenage son can genuinely enjoy together, unless your husband is into video games.  We took my oldest son's Scout troop to Fort Dix for a shooting event a couple years ago (.22 rifles and shotgun/skeet) - one of the most popular trips we've ever done.  All you can do give them proper instructions on how to shoot safely and keep reinforcing it - and limit access to the gun/go with him.  But it sounds like Josh has a great head-on-his-shoulders ...

    Parent

    Tuesday Afternoon Open Thread | 68 comments (68 topical)

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