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Monday Morning Open Thread

Here's an interesting take on the removal of Judge Schira Scheindlin from the stop and frisk case by the Second Circuit.

Open Thread.

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    AN AXE LENGTH AWAY, vol. 177 (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by Dadler on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 11:16:50 AM EST
    Spy vs. Spy? (5.00 / 3) (#6)
    by Edger on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 11:29:06 AM EST
    Former NSA Boss Says NSA Should Just Reveal Everything Itself And Move On
    Bobby R. Inman, who weathered his own turbulent period as N.S.A. director from 1977 to 1981, offers his hyper-secret former agency a radical suggestion for right now. "My advice would be to take everything you think Snowden has and get it out yourself," he said. "It would certainly be a shock to the agency. But bad news doesn't get better with age. The sooner they get it out and put it behind them, the faster they can begin to rebuild."
    I don't know. Somehow being truthful seems like it would far too radical a step for any government or any political party to take.

    More and better lies would be the most pragmatic route to go, no?

    Unfortunately, yes (none / 0) (#8)
    by Slado on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 11:49:07 AM EST
    Obviously our president isn't going to accept blame so who other then a occasional Snowden is going to step forward?

    No one.   Either Obama decides to come clean or the rest will follow his lead.

    Parent

    It's not obama's fault (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by Edger on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 11:57:32 AM EST
    that even though he promised transparency there are still people unable, or more likely unwilling, to see through him.

    Reagan Democrats are like that. Well, actually, most republicans and democrats are like that. It's never their fault.

    Parent

    Everyone is like that at first (none / 0) (#11)
    by Slado on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 12:02:51 PM EST
    but not everyone runs a company, is a priest or is president.

    With certain jobs comes the responsibility of fighting against basic human nature.

    Obama has let the job overwhelm him and he's nothing that candidate Obama said he would be.

    Maybe candidate Obama was a make believe person but I'm willing to accept that he had all the intentions of being what he said but doesn't have the gumption to lead or actually do it.

    Parent

    No, he's way better than bush was. (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by Edger on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 12:13:51 PM EST
    He had all the intention of being exactly what he is. He's a far better liar than bush or any other republican could ever have hoped to be. Republicans are amateurs.

    He's nothing that candidate Obama said he would be.

    Parent

    The earth just moved (5.00 / 2) (#17)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 12:55:58 PM EST
    Edger, you are right.

    Parent
    Holy sh*t... (5.00 / 3) (#19)
    by kdog on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 12:59:37 PM EST
    Obama delivers on a goal...post-partisan unity!  Probably not the unity he had in mind, but still impressive none the less.

    Parent
    Naw (none / 0) (#32)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 02:42:59 PM EST
    Bush was a better liar because he used religion as a shield. So unless you think lying for Jesus is better than flat out lying you would have to give it to Bush.

    Parent
    Bush was too obvious (none / 0) (#35)
    by Edger on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 02:53:49 PM EST
    Anybody with half a brain could see through him. Obama is a pro.

    Parent
    Maybe (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 03:28:56 PM EST
    to you and some others but there are plenty of people in red states who thought everything that came out of his mouth was the truth because "he said he loved Jesus" therefore he couldn't be lying was their rationale. Honestly, with him as with Obama they both are/were as confusing a h*ll. Obama talks in circles and Bush talked nonsense.

    Parent
    Actually, (5.00 / 2) (#25)
    by lentinel on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 01:46:12 PM EST
    what exactly did candidate Obama actually say he would be?

    He said he would not support single payer.

    He said Iran was a grave threat.

    He said that he would oppose gay marriage because of his religious upbringing.

    He said that we should add battalions to Afghanistan.

    He campaigned for Lieberman, his mentor.

    He voted for FISA.

    He said we were the ones we were waiting for.

    Of all of the above, the only one that he hasn't adhered to was his opposition to the right of gay people to marry.

    And we're still waiting for us to show up.

    No.
    I think he has lived up to being what he was, but not up to the image projected by people who were looking at him and imagining something else.

    Parent

    The best way to lie (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by Edger on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 02:35:11 PM EST
    is to tell 'carefully' edited truth, and let believers have hope for a change? And do it with a big grin?

    Parent
    I haven't (5.00 / 5) (#64)
    by lentinel on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 04:05:44 PM EST
    witnessed a case of public mass hypnosis quite like the one engendered by the candidacy and presidency of Obama.

    He still had people believing that he would show his true progressive self after he was safely reelected.

    These are the same schmucks (excuse my french) who felt assured that he would show his true progressive colors once he was elected the first time - after he showed over and over again during the campaign that he was as right wing as anyone.

    I still recoil at the "sweetie" remark. But that didn't cost him. He could say and do anything, and the huddled masses will still see what they want to see, and are told they are seeing, and hear what they want to hear, and are told what they are hearing.

    Parent

    Well... (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by Edger on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 04:12:46 PM EST
    He has only been in office five years, after all. ;-)

    And he did slip and tell the truth at least once, so it could happen again...

    Parent

    No need to (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by Zorba on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 05:18:23 PM EST
    excuse your "French."  Schmuck is Yiddish.   ;-)
    Yes, I agree about the mass hypnosis about Obama.  From the time he first ran for and won his U.S. Senate seat from Illinois, and even before that, I never thought that he was any kind of liberal/progressive/etc savior.
    But then, I am from that area of the country, I have relatives there, and I still follow Illinois (and Missouri) politics quite closely.
    Obama was originally a Chicago politician.  That is where he "made his bones," as it were.  He was always a consummate politician, I have to grant him that.  He was for whatever would advance Obama first, and he was quite skilled at that.
    Ah, well, I think I need to pour myself a Jack Daniels on the rocks, because I'm depressing myself all over again.   :-(

    Parent
    He's timeless (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by Edger on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 05:31:56 PM EST
    He's been around since at least 1939... ;-)

    Parent
    The dreams that I dared (5.00 / 2) (#86)
    by Zorba on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 05:51:48 PM EST
    to dream long ago never did come true, Edger.  I have long since left those dreams behind.  Sadly.  I still do what I can do, supporting those causes that are on the same page as I am, and writing, emailing, and calling politicians.  But it does get discouraging.  {{Sigh}}  

    Parent
    Reality is pretty fascinating (5.00 / 2) (#87)
    by Edger on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 05:59:09 PM EST
    and a pretty cool place to live though, I find. There are a lot of people who dream good dreams in it, doing what they can do, and supporting worthwhile causes, after all.

    It would be a pretty dry demon filled place without them. ;-)

    Parent

    Methinks I'm be one of the "schmucks"... (none / 0) (#110)
    by gbrbsb on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 09:27:39 PM EST
    ... but then ¡que remedio! With McCain first innings and Romney seconds, here in Europe, where parties still try to show differences, (or better said, hide their similarities), so we simple folk can still vaguely distinguish between men and pigs, it seemed a no contest even for the conservatives among us. And his rousing rhetoric after Bush's gobbledygook, and to boot black, it really looked like a new US deal could be hanging in the global air... but at least I am not a recidivist "schmuck", not after the Guantanamo back track and the ongoing drones!

    Parent
    Obama the master of public deception. (1.00 / 1) (#44)
    by Mikado Cat on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 03:16:59 PM EST
    Good example is the Benghazi rose garden speech. Obama knew what happened, had real time reports of the attack and knew about the substandard security, then made a speech to lie about it in a way that did not dilute the lie, spontaneous attack due to movie, with later deniability by using the word terrorist ambiguously.

    Obama is a master of deception and the craft of public lying. I don't know if he is better liar than Bill Clinton, but it could be a different skill set. Clinton is the master of face to face lying, where he would meet with people and they would leave feeling certain they had agreement, and nothing actually happened as they would later discover.

    Parent

    The Cat Is Back (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by CoralGables on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 03:30:32 PM EST
    Benghazi

    Parent
    CG, I think you must have meant to (5.00 / 2) (#57)
    by Anne on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 03:36:08 PM EST
    type, "BENGHAZI! BENGHAZI! BENGHAAAAAZIIIIII!!!!!

    Parent
    Anne (none / 0) (#62)
    by CoralGables on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 03:48:30 PM EST
    My apologies for the Ravens. I'm beginning to think it's my fault. As soon as I admitted my error when saying they would be toast this season they went out and lost 3 in a row.

    I'll go back and designate them as toast again and maybe they'll start winning for you.

    Parent

    CG, I wish you had that much power, lol... (none / 0) (#78)
    by Anne on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 05:28:13 PM EST
    I almost don't know why it all bothers me so much, given that I said before the season started that I would be surprised if they did better than 8-8 this year given all the personnel changes.

    My new mantra should be, "it's just a game, it's just a game," and matters not one whit to anything in my life.

    We've just been spoiled after 5 years of making it to the post-season, and with the Super Bowl win last year.  It could be a lot worse: I could be a Jaguars fan, for crying out loud.

    I just think people are getting tired of the same old/same old of "we just have to play better" from Harbaugh.  

    Oh, well - the season's not over yet, and the Ravens typically play better teams better, so maybe we aren't looking at a total beatdown by the Bengals on Sunday...but I'm not willing to settle for "being in it" right up to the point where we lose, either.

    But, hey, if you want to reverse your "Ravens are toast" reverse, who am I to stand in your way?

    Parent

    I guess (none / 0) (#53)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 03:30:48 PM EST
    you must have fallen for the Benghazi hoaxer.

    Parent
    He said (none / 0) (#69)
    by MKS on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 04:31:04 PM EST
    two brigades would be added to Afghanistan....considerably larger than a battalion.....not quite a division.

    And Lieberman was his mentor, how so?

    In terms of mentor, Teddy much more clearly fit that definition.  Obama ask Teddy to tutor him in Senate ways.....and they met frequently.  Maybe Obama was just schmoozing him....but Teddy was in Obama's corner from day one.    

    Parent

    Very strange (5.00 / 2) (#74)
    by sj on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 05:04:54 PM EST
    I was going to answer your question:
    And Lieberman was his mentor, how so?
    It was widely reported in 2005, but I can't find any of the source links, and I know there were many. Here's the closest to an official report that I can find.
    Interestingly, the AP and Hartford Courant have reported that Lieberman was Obama's mentor when the latter joined the Senate in 2005. The New York Times said it was part of a program to pair veteran senators with freshman; according to the Hartford Courant, Lieberman claimed Obama had picked him.
    As you can see, it was reported in mainstream newspapers, and yet I can't find direct links.

    Parent
    David Sirota wrote about it (5.00 / 2) (#75)
    by jbindc on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 05:16:49 PM EST
    But his site now has 404 errors.

    FDL wrote about it too.

    Although Obama said such high-profile primary endorsements were rare, a similar controversy arose a few weeks later. Just as Ned Lamont's antiwar primary campaign against prowar Connecticut Senator Joe Lieberman was gaining momentum, Obama traveled to the state to endorse Lieberman. Like the Duckworth endorsement, Obama's move was timed to derail an insurgent, grassroots candidate. To progressives this may seem surprising, given Obama's progressive image. But remember, according to the New York Times it is Lieberman-one of the most conservative, prowar Democrats in Washington-who is "Obama's mentor in the Senate as part of a program in which freshman senators are paired with incumbents."



    Parent
    Yeah, I found it on FDL (none / 0) (#81)
    by sj on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 05:37:30 PM EST
    and on other blogs, too. But I kept getting 404 errors (or no hits) when I tried for a non-blog source.

    Weird.

    Parent

    Well, now we know... (none / 0) (#116)
    by unitron on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 10:45:51 PM EST
    ...what the NSA has really been up to.

    Parent
    ha! (none / 0) (#139)
    by sj on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 11:23:18 AM EST
    You are (5.00 / 4) (#31)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 02:41:47 PM EST
    confusing what Obama says and what he does. He was all against warantless wiretapping until it came up for a vote and then promptly voted for it and that was before the 2008 election.

    Parent
    He was absent from the Senate (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by oculus on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 02:57:23 PM EST
    re the FISA revise vote.

    Parent
    So he couldn't vote "present," eh? (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by Mr Natural on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 05:46:12 PM EST
    He voted in favor of expanding (5.00 / 2) (#91)
    by MO Blue on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 06:13:44 PM EST
    the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act on 7/9/08.

    Armando Llorens, who blogs under the name Big Tent Democrat, at TalkLeft.com took issue with the comments Mr. Obama made yesterday saying that his support for the bill was not politically motivated, but rather represents a genuine policy disagreement with more liberal elements of the Democratic Party:

    "I do not believe Barack Obama. I will go further. I do not want to believe him. Because the alternative is worse. Because if Obama believes the BS he said about the FISA Capitulation bill, then he is not fit to be President. If Barack Obama really believes this about the FISA Capitulation bill, then he is as dangerous as George W. Bush."

    Mr. Obama's vote for the bill, which provides legal immunity for phone companies that participated in the government's wiretapping program, represents a reversal for the presumptive Democratic nominee. He previously opposed that provision. Senator John McCain, the presumptive Republican nominee, was not present for the vote.

    The F.I.S.A. bill passed 69 to 28 in the Senate today, and a number of prominent Democratic senators, including Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada, Chuck Schumer of New York, Chris Dodd of Connecticut and Mr. Obama's former rival, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, voted against it.



    Parent
    You know, MO (none / 0) (#99)
    by jbindc on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 06:25:47 PM EST
    you shouldn't really be quoting from conservative / right of center sources, such as Armando.

    <snark>

    Parent

    Are you overreacting much? (none / 0) (#101)
    by christinep on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 06:36:15 PM EST
    Or does the Lady Protest Too Much <snark>

    Parent
    Nope (none / 0) (#103)
    by jbindc on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 06:43:39 PM EST
    Just pointing out your favorite talking point (aside from the administration's) to show how ludicrous it is.

    Thanks for playing.

    Parent

    You're most welcome. (none / 0) (#105)
    by christinep on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 06:49:43 PM EST
    LOL (none / 0) (#171)
    by Amiss on Mon Nov 18, 2013 at 01:13:07 PM EST
    Feb.2008 Sen. Obama didn't vote: (none / 0) (#106)
    by oculus on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 07:49:52 PM EST
    The Feb. 2008 bill was an earlier amendment (none / 0) (#112)
    by MO Blue on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 10:02:33 PM EST
    The Senate passed S. 2248, the FISA Amendments Act of 2008, as amended, on February 12, 2008.

    Obama missed the February vote on that FISA bill as he campaigned in the "Potomac Primaries," but issued a statement that day declaring "I am proud to stand with Senator Dodd, Senator Feingold and a grassroots movement of Americans who are refusing to let President Bush put protections for special interests ahead of our security and our liberty."

    Sens. Christopher Dodd (D-Conn.) and Russ Feingold (D-Wisc.) continue to oppose the new legislation, as does Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.). All Obama backers in the primary, those senior lawmakers contend that the new version of the FISA law -- crafted after four months of intense negotiations between White House aides and congressional leaders -- provides insufficient court review of the pending 40 lawsuits against the telecommunications companies alleging privacy invasion for their participation in a warrantless wiretapping program after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

    It was amended again in July 2008 to provide legal immunity for phone companies that participated in the government's wiretapping program. Despite his previous rhetoric and promises of leading a filibuster, Obama reversed his position and voted for the bill.

    Parent

    Senate to pass ENDA (5.00 / 4) (#9)
    by jbindc on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 11:52:23 AM EST
    Link

    The Senate is poised to move forward Monday with legislation that would ban forms of workplace discrimination against gay and transgendered people.

    Sen. Dean Heller (R-Nev.) on Monday announced his support for the Employment Non-Discrimination Act (ENDA), likely giving Democrats the 60 votes they would need to break a Republican filibuster.

    "After listening to Nevadans' concerns about this issue from a variety of viewpoints and after numerous conversations with my colleagues, I feel that supporting this legislation is the right thing to do," Heller said Monday.

    "This legislation raises the federal standards to match what we have come to expect in Nevada, which is that discrimination must not be tolerated under any circumstance," Heller wrote.

    In addition to Heller, four other Republicans are behind the bill. Sens. Susan Collin (Maine) is a co-sponsor, and three other GOP senators -- Sens.  Orrin Hatch (Utah), Mark Kirk (Ill.) and Lisa Murkowski (Alaska) -- voted for it on the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions (HELP) Committee.

    But while the legislation is likely advance in the Senate, it faces an uncertain future in the House.

    Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) on Monday said he opposes the legislation because it would harm the economy.

    Oh Boehner, Boehner, Boehner....sigh.

    Good One (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 01:35:53 PM EST
    He didn't seem to care about the economy during the shutdown, but now when it comes to denying people protection, the economy is numero uno.

    Pleaze, John.

    Parent

    Wonder how long it will take (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by shoephone on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 01:38:02 PM EST
    for Boehner's closeted gay staffers to either start sabotaging the offices ("Oh, which report is it you can't locate?") or leave their jobs and finally come out.

    Regardless, Boehner is a deluded old fart if he thinks opposing ENDA will save him the speakership. The Tea Party is out for real blood.

    Parent

    Not an original argument, Boehner-- (none / 0) (#21)
    by KeysDan on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 01:26:18 PM EST
    sort of plagiarism, a trend in some Republican circles.

    Parent
    You better stop that, or ... (none / 0) (#72)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 05:01:11 PM EST
    ... Sen. Rand Paul will challenge you to a duel, were dueling still legal.

    Well, okay, it isn't so he can't -- but if it was, he would if he could, so there. You're all a bunch of haters and he hates you for it, and he wishes we lived back in the 1820s so he could shoot you all and save America from haters like you.

    What a loon!
    ;-D

    Parent

    And the (none / 0) (#33)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 02:44:03 PM EST
    evangelicals screamed.

    Parent
    Bad homos. Bad, bad homos.

    Meanwhile, here in Honolulu, the State House Judiciary and Finance committees are presently in their 41st hour of hearing testimony on SB 1, Relating to Marriage Equality, which would make Hawaii the 15th state to legalize same-gender marriage. A record 6,000 people have signed up to testify.

    And in our legislature, nobody has been a more vociferous defender of the sanctity of traditional marriage this go-round than State Sen. Sam Slom (R-Bozo's Big Top), an ardent practitioner of the holy sacrament who's been married three times, and who's traded in each wife for a newer model.

    So is Slom's current live-in girlfriend Malia Zimmerman, a right-wing journalist -- and one of the most dishonest, unscrupulous and conniving people I've ever met -- who left her husband and young son to take up with him. Together, they are truly Hawaii's Gruesome Twosome.

    Whenever you've got Slom and Zimmerman as your spokespeople, you've got serious problems. Same-sex marriage is going to pass, and when it does, the wind will be taken out of the Christianistas' sails. Halleluyah!

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Oy! (5.00 / 2) (#88)
    by Zorba on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 05:59:38 PM EST
    What is it with these right-wing Christianists who defend "traditional" marriage but do not believe that it applies to them?  Dumping wives for newer models?  A live-in girlfriend?  He must be reading a whole different Bible than I am.


    Parent
    Sam Slom's actually Jewish. (none / 0) (#107)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 08:54:00 PM EST
    Sadly, that blowhard's also my state senator. I've actually been approached about running against him, and I'm now considering it. Maybe my campaign slogan could be "Stop the Chutzpah!"

    ;-D

    Parent

    Oh, well, then what is it (none / 0) (#135)
    by Zorba on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 10:58:52 AM EST
    about the right-wing fundies of any faith?
    Maybe your campaign slogan should be "Stop the Meshugas!"
    (Or however you spell it in English.)  Because he sure sounds like a meshugener.
    ;-)

    Parent
    Since there is not even a pretense ... (none / 0) (#40)
    by sj on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 03:10:37 PM EST
    ...of the common good, that's all they've got.
    Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) on Monday said he opposes the legislation because it would harm the economy
    Think about it. That's all they've got. That has been the only rationale given for everything (except maybe the ACA, I can't recall the GOP party line there).

    That was the so-called rebuttal to last week's Executive Order on Climate Change. I guess they also believe that if you say something long and loud enough it becomes Conventional Wisdom. And once it becomes CW who really needs truth anyway?

    Anyway, believe it or not, I heard about this on the Weather Channel. And, when they gave the Republicans' response, they managed to keep a straight face. But quickly changed the subject after a single sentence.

    Parent

    I guess that extra hour of sleep didn't (5.00 / 4) (#15)
    by Anne on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 12:30:18 PM EST
    help as much as I thought...

    I just posted a link to this graphic in the NFL Sunday Open Thread, when I meant to post it here...

    If you make $50,000 a year...


    Wow (2.00 / 1) (#48)
    by Mikado Cat on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 03:23:28 PM EST
    I sure would be mad about the Obama economy that had me stuck making $50k instead of a thriving economy with regular raises.

    Not that I trust partisan sourced graphics to reflect reality.

    Parent

    You do realize that 50k is about the median (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by ruffian on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 09:25:51 PM EST
    US income, right? Half the people make less than that.  Obama has not helped as much as I  think he could have, but this was not his doing.

    Parent
    Hear hear... (5.00 / 2) (#119)
    by kdog on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 05:39:48 AM EST
    this economy, these stagnant wages and ever rising income inequality gap, is at least 30 years in the making.  

    Probably best called the Reagan economy...rolled over by Bush, Clinton, Bush, & Obama (and all those sessions of Congress).  Union busting, outsourcing, deregulation, corporate welfare, privatized gains/socialized losses, and all that jazz.  

    And here we are.

    Parent

    This is kind of funny from (5.00 / 2) (#121)
    by MO Blue on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 07:57:28 AM EST
    someone like you who firmly believe that people should make $5.00 or less an hour.

    Since you are a math expert (based on liking math), would you like to tell us how many hours a person making $5.00 an hour would have to work to make $50k in your version of a thriving economy.  

    Parent

    But (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by Edger on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 08:11:11 AM EST
    Food stamps would supplement it, right? If they weren't cut, of course...

    Parent
    Oooh, this is a fun math problem... (5.00 / 3) (#125)
    by Anne on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 08:41:24 AM EST
    Okay, $50,000 a year divided by 52 weeks is $961.54.

    At the minimum wage here in MD, which is $7.25/hr, how many hours must one work to reach that weekly check?

    $962/7.25 = 132.63 hours.

    So, you'd make $58 for an 8-hr day, $290 for a 5-day week.  Let's say you do a double shift each of those 5 days, so on top of the regular rate for 8 hours, you get 10.88 for each overtime hour.  40 hours at $10.88 is $435.20.  So, your total for working 5 16-hr days is $290 plus $435.20 or 725.20.

    We're about $240 short of the $962 we need to make each week to gross $50K a year.

    If we work 8 hours on Sunday at double time, we'd get $116.  Still short $124.

    We could work Saturday, at time and a half, but it would have to be over 11 hours.

    So, the grand total of hours you'd need to work at $7.25, with time-and-a-half for the hours over 40, and double-time on Sunday, would be:

    Mon - Fri:  16 hrs x 5 = 80
    Saturday:                11
    Sunday                    8
    for a grand total of 99 hours.

    But you'd never get a job where your employer would be willing to pay you for 99 hours of work.  Why, they might have to pay you benefits!  So, even if you worked three minimum wage jobs, and even if you could teleport your way to them so as not to lose any time traveling, you'd only make $870 a week at the $7.25 minimum, well short of the $962 needed to gross $50K

    I think we wouldn't call these jobs, we'd call it part of an indentured servitude program.  No, wait - a Get A Better Job Initiative!


    Parent

    Or (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by Edger on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 08:55:26 AM EST
    they could go into politics and make $8928.57 per hour, or 50 grand in 5.6 hours... and probably have your lunch paid for too.

    They'd have to be populists, of course. Of course...


    Parent

    ,,that ship has sailed (none / 0) (#168)
    by jondee on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 10:23:36 AM EST
    the Patriarchy made her do it.

    she's already starting to fundraise for her grassroots-centered, people-power-oriented campaign in 2012..

    Parent

    You mean an extra hour... (none / 0) (#18)
    by kdog on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 12:57:28 PM EST
    in bed staring at the clock unable to go back to sleep...don't know about anybody else but my internal clock does not recognize daylight savings.

    Killer graphic Anne...sh*t you could add some of the pittance for food stamps to the whopper corporate subsidy column.  

    Kickin' the dog is a red herring.  

    Parent

    I much prefer this 25 hour day to ... (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by magster on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 05:47:48 PM EST
    the 23 hour day we get in the spring.

    Parent
    I'm With You (5.00 / 1) (#144)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 12:27:57 PM EST
    It takes a good week for my body to get used to the charge and I would way rather wake up early(like today), than that GD alarm going off an hour earlier than my internal clock.

    This past couple months I have been using my phone.  It is insane how much better I awake with it compared to the traditional alarm clock.  I am a super heavy sleeper, so it wasn't that odd for me to sleep through my regular clock getting woke up by my back-up that requires I get out of bed to shut it off.

    Now my phone is set for 2 alarms, M-F, and only a couple times has the first alarm not waken me with ease.  I love it.

    I'm with kdog about leaving work when it's dark, but for me most days in the winter, it's dark regardless of DST when I leave.

    If Benjamin Franklin really was a genius, he would have proposed an hour less work in the winter, not moving the clocks back IMO.  I know farmers and all, but I stand by it.

    Parent

    I don't know... (none / 0) (#142)
    by kdog on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 11:38:48 AM EST
    what I dislike most about "fall back" is leaving the cubicle to darkness outside...somewhat depressing time of year in that respect, where as the sun has a way of disinfecting the day's daily dose of dirty.

    Parent
    That didn't take long... (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by kdog on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 01:23:10 PM EST
    new website up and running to replace healthcare.hindenburg.gov...re-route your browsers to thehealthsherpa.com and shop for health insurance today.

    I think Uncle Sam owes three dudes 25-100 million a piece;)

    Dude... (none / 0) (#24)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 01:43:07 PM EST
    ...that took me all of one minute to find out what is available in my area.  $137.56 for the bronze.

    Here is the actual link to the site:
    www.thehealthsherpa.com

    Parent

    Seriously right? (none / 0) (#27)
    by kdog on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 02:01:32 PM EST
    Open Letter to President Obama...buy the damn rights to this site, slap a .gov on the end, and demand a full refund of our money from those canadian shysters your people hired! Salvage your sh*t Dude!

    Parent
    Not me (none / 0) (#49)
    by Mikado Cat on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 03:26:57 PM EST
    We're Working On It

    California has their own healthcare exchange, and hasn't shared that data with us yet. In the meantime, you can find and compare plans on California's exchange.

    Parent

    Tried Calif site (none / 0) (#55)
    by Mikado Cat on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 03:34:27 PM EST
    Application Error

    Error:   
    URI:    /hix/plandisplay/preferences
    Status code:    200
    Please contact the support team.

    Parent

    Huh? (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 04:15:03 PM EST
    The "Covered California" health insurance exchange portal works fine, and the website has in fact gotten very positive reviews for its use-friendly navigation. I just went there, and had absolutely no problem.

    Parent
    Donald's Link... (none / 0) (#146)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 12:37:15 PM EST
    ...worked for me, but $247/mth is considerably higher than my Texas rate of $138.

    I just grabbed the cheapest plan for both states, one for Houston and the other for San Diego.  One is a phone bill the other is a small car note, both BC/BS.

    I am positive someone will explain how this is not the insurance company's fault, only Obama's.

    Parent

    Don't know how reliable that site is (none / 0) (#147)
    by jbindc on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 01:00:50 PM EST
    I just plugged in my zip code and looked for the plans that I am looking at.

    The healthsherpa site does not break down by age (except to say "Under 49"), so it is not giving a true estimate of what the plans will be.

    The plan I am considering buying from CareFirst on their website (which I have to take as the most accurate) is listed at $253.  On healthsherpa, the exact same plan is listed at $184.

    Something's wrong in Denmark.

    Parent

    Sorry... (5.00 / 2) (#155)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 04:01:53 PM EST
    ...this has got to be a total nightmare for some, like you.  back in the day I used to support the O, but this is the last straw.  I don't see the D's holding onto the Senate, which means ACA is running on borrowed time.  Unless they get a lot of people to like it real soon, it's done.  That seems highly unlikely at this point.

    What really irks me is the pro-O crowd doesn't realize the damage that one man has cause the party.  It's a shell of itself, O managed to get people who once stood for certain things, like human rights, social programs, and helping people who are in dire need of help to totally turn a blind eye to their convictions in order to defend Obama.  When he is gone WTF will be left of the party.

    I would love someone to list what Obama democrats stand for, cause I don't know, they are becoming as foreign to me as republicans, but at the very least, I know they stand for.

    Parent

    What will really be telling (5.00 / 3) (#156)
    by jbindc on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 04:17:15 PM EST
    Is how many young people will sign up.  

    Considering that many of them can stay on their parents' plan, and considering that all indications so far show young people signing up in droves for Medicaid, or are willing to take their chances with a penalty, I'm betting that the administration severely overestimated this number.  Maybe they were counting on the celebrity of Obama to carry the day, but that star has faded - even amongst the young people who voted for him, who are now in their mid-20s and have things like bills, rent, student loans, and car payments due.

    When Democratic Senators are now saying things like "It has to be fixes" or "It must be fixed" or "If it is fixed" as opposed to "When it will be fixed" - that's pretty telling that they are nervous too.

    And while I will get flamed for this from the usual suspects, Darrell Issa released more notes from the WH war room on the Obamacare launch.  (Note:  these are NOT Darrell Issa's words, but that of the team actually working on Obamacare from within the administration).

    During the first few days following the federal exchange site's Oct. 1 launch, the Obama administration publicly blamed the HealthCare.gov glitches on high website traffic. But the 175 pages of notes from the Obamacare "war room" -- released Tuesday by the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee -- contain little to no mention of higher-than-expected volume.

    Instead, notes from the first day indicate that there were problems with verifying shoppers' identities and whether they were eligible for insurance subsidies, with some receiving incorrect determinations. The system was also denying Medicaid and CHIP enrollment to 90 percent of applicants based on their state residency, a problem officials had tried to fix at first but hadn't initially succeeded at.

    There were also problems on the ground. Licensed agents and brokers were struggling to access the website, and regional account officers and caseworkers were "unavailable."

    Here are the actual notes.

    Parent

    Well, look... (5.00 / 1) (#162)
    by Edger on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 06:52:55 PM EST
    Sserioussly.  Take what Issa ssayss (that right-of-center ssource) h'ess got with a grain of ssalt.  Give it a few dayss....

    Parent
    How about Barbara Mikulski? (5.00 / 2) (#165)
    by jbindc on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 09:11:20 AM EST
    Link (and yes, I know the piece was written by Major Garrett, but since he's using direct quotes from Barbara Mikulski, I think we can look past the author and look to the substance of what he is saying.  Well, at least some of us can).

    When Sen. Barbara Mikulski speaks, President Obama ought to listen.

    Attentively.

    Mikulski, after all, was a social worker before Obama was 5 and a successful community organizer before he was 10. She led a campaign to stop a proposed 16-lane highway from plowing through her native Highlandtown neighborhood in East Baltimore. She was elected to the City Council in 1971, the U.S. House in 1976, and the Senate in 1986. Mikulski is the dean of the Senate women, and she sports a career voting record of 93.3 with Americans for Democratic Action. She passionately supports Obamacare.

    Before questioning Marilyn Tavenner, the head of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, at a congressional hearing Tuesday, Mikulski said something that ought to make Obama's blood run cold.

    "The launching of the Affordable Care Act has been more than bumpy," Mikulski said. "I believe there's been a crisis of confidence created in the dysfunctional nature of the website, the canceling of policies, and sticker shock from some people. We read in The Baltimore Sun this morning that 73,000 Marylanders' policies will be canceled. So there has been fear, doubt, and a crisis of confidence."

    "Crisis of confidence." The last time that phrase was memorably uttered was in 1979. It did not turn out well for President Carter.

    Mikulski's worries are profound and cut to the heart of the law's unsteady implementation.

    "What I worry about is that there's such a crisis of confidence, people won't enroll. And the very people we need to enroll, particularly our young people, to make this whole system work, won't happen."

    A more devastating assessment of the law's woes and the long-term consequences of the "fear" and "doubt" surrounding policy cancellations, a still-troubled website, and Obama's own credibility gap could not have been uttered.



    Parent
    You're makin' thiss hard, but... (none / 0) (#166)
    by Edger on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 09:19:25 AM EST
    Ok, this is about what Barbara Mikulski said,  right?

    Parent
    Yep (5.00 / 1) (#167)
    by jbindc on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 09:49:02 AM EST
    But I know you can understand these things, Edger.  :)

    Parent
    Hoo ha, edger (none / 0) (#164)
    by christinep on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 10:49:43 PM EST
    You may have totally lost your sense of directionSssss. Because one Issssa is much much more than right-of-center.  Try the far right wallssss.  And, he will likely be there for more than a few days.  (Funny, when one becomes so ideological, you lose track of directions.)

    Parent
    But of course, you never let ideology (5.00 / 4) (#169)
    by Anne on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 12:46:02 PM EST
    get in the way of anything, do you, christine?

    We all know who and what Darrell Issa is, and we certainly know why he released those WH war room notes, but I've yet to read anything from you that addresses the actual content of those materials.  Perhaps that is because they do not cast the much-revered Obama in the best of lights, and you really have no answer for what has been happening with the rollout that would.

    That's not even remotely funny, nor is it even remotely helpful to addressing the very real issues and problems with this rollout.

    If nothing else, you really do need to learn how to snark better, because your recent attempts have taken a much harder bite out of your own butt than they have out of anyone else's.

    Perhaps a doughnut pillow?  I'm sure your gold-plated health plan would cover it in full.

    Parent

    Thank you for the chuckle, Anne (none / 0) (#170)
    by christinep on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 06:56:47 PM EST
    Not much to answer here, since your words are primarily directed here against me as an individual.  Oh well, to each his own.  

    One comment:  We don't really need to push too hard to create our blog controversy, give & take, or whatever on the ACA/Obamacare score ... we'll have some more info in a few weeks to--let's see--disagree about.  I'm actually looking forward to an agreement someday or something like that; too bad that you are not in Colorado, and we could have a drink (or two) and talk about these issues.  

    BTW, you use the word revere as to the President.  Y'know, I don't "revere" any human being.  I do support someone, like the President, who moves in the direction that I would like to see in a number of areas as positive, progressive, liberal.  I admire provocative discussion and ideals; but, I love actual movement/action in that direction.  Yep, the ole' incrementalism ... the getting there bit by bit (as opposed to the getting-nowhere hand-wringing.) Just my position.

    Talk with you later....

    Parent

    It may be wrong here, (none / 0) (#148)
    by Zorba on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 01:24:14 PM EST
    But it's certainly not wrong in Denmark.  ;-)

    Hospitals in Denmark have excellent facilities, and most doctors and dentists speak English. The Danish health service is financed through income tax, so state medical treatment in Denmark is available to all Danish residents and EU citizens free of charge. Free emergency treatment is available to visitors from all other countries.

    Link.

    Would that we had such a system.


    Parent

    Well... (5.00 / 2) (#129)
    by Edger on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 09:57:30 AM EST
    he's an AEI alumnus and he was one of bush's speechwriters, so this op piece from him at WAPO yesterday should be a piece of cake for 'shoot the messenger' aficionados to dismiss... although that same background and experience should make it a walk in the park for him to recognize A dishonest presidency when he sees one...

    The Wall Street Journal broke the news this weekend that, even as President Obama was telling the American people they could keep their health plans, "some White House policy advisors objected to the breadth of Mr. Obama's `keep your plan' promise. They were overruled by political aides."

    Overruled by political aides? This is simply damning.

    It's not easy to get a lie into a presidential speech. Every draft address is circulated to the White House senior staff and key Cabinet officials in something called the "staffing process." Every line is reviewed by dozens of senior officials, who offer comments and factual corrections. During this process, it turns out, some of Obama's policy advisers objected to the "you can keep your plan" pledge, pointing out that it was untrue. But it stayed in the speech. That does not happen by accident. It requires a willful intent to deceive.

    In the Bush White House, we speechwriters would often come up with what we thought were great turns of phrase to help the president explain his policies. But we also had a strict fact-checking process, where every iteration of every proposed presidential utterance was scrubbed to ensure it was both accurate and defensible. If the fact-checkers told us a line was inaccurate, we would either kill it or find another way to make the point accurately. I cannot imagine a scenario in which the fact-checkers or White House policy advisers would tell us that something in a draft speech was factually incorrect and that guidance would be ignored or overruled by the president's political advisers.



    I read that this morning (5.00 / 2) (#130)
    by jbindc on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 10:09:06 AM EST
    And while I agree with your analysis,and he makes some good points in principle, I couldn't help but think of the huge amount of fact checking they apparently forgot to do in the Bush White House in the run-up to the Iraq War.

    Parent
    Yep (5.00 / 2) (#131)
    by Edger on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 10:11:07 AM EST
    That's why I said it should be a piece of cake for him to spot when it happens.

    Parent
    But then again, (5.00 / 3) (#132)
    by jbindc on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 10:12:46 AM EST
    There's this:

    It might not seem possible that President Obama could do more harm to his credibility and the public's faith in government than misleading Americans about health insurance reform. But he can. The president is now misleading the public about his deception.

    In a speech last night to his political team, Obama said: "Now, if you have or had one of these plans before the Affordable Care Act came into law and you really liked that plan, what we said was you can keep it if it hasn't changed since the law passed."

    No, no, no, no, no -- that's not what the Obama administration said. What they said was:

    "That means that no matter how we reform health care, we will keep this promise to the American people: If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor, period. If you like your health-care plan, you'll be able to keep your health-care plan, period. No one will take it away, no matter what." - President Obama, speech to the American Medical Association, June 15, 2009, during the debate over health insurance reform.

    "And if you like your insurance plan, you will keep it.  No one will be able to take that away from you.  It hasn't happened yet.  It won't happen in the future." - Obama, remarks in Portland, April 1, 2010, after the bill was signed into law.

    SNIP

    On history's scale of deception, this one leaves a light footprint. Worse lies have been told by worse presidents, leading to more severe consequences, and you could argue that withholding a caveat is more a sin of omission. But this president is toying with a fragile commodity: his credibility. Once Americans stop believing in Obama, they will stop listening to him. They won't trust government to manage health care. And they will wonder what happened to reform-minded leader who promised never to lie to them.


    Parent
    I noted once years ago, (5.00 / 3) (#133)
    by Edger on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 10:17:24 AM EST
    about the first year of obama I think it was, that when the lies stopped working he was going to eventually conclude that More and Better Lies would be what he needed...

    Parent
    AN AXE LENGTH AWAY, vol. 178 (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by Dadler on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 10:34:07 AM EST
    13 times (5.00 / 2) (#159)
    by jbindc on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 05:10:48 PM EST
    When CJ Cregg was right

    (Personally, I thought she was right a great deal more than that).

    Very true. (none / 0) (#160)
    by Zorba on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 05:46:22 PM EST
    And funny as he!!  Thanks!  ;-)

    Parent
    Here's a new wrinkle (5.00 / 2) (#161)
    by jbindc on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 06:24:43 PM EST
    Welcome to Wonderland


    The Obama administration has ordered a study to determine whether the Affordable Care Act, by increasing the number of people eligible for Medicaid, will also increase the number of people enrolled in the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program based on how states enroll people.

    The outcome of the study could show an increase of 3 percent to 5 percent in food stamp recipients in some states from people who were already eligible for SNAP benefits but had not enrolled in the program -- which could translate to millions or even billions more in federal spending, Greg Mills, a senior fellow at the Urban Institute who is conducting the study, told POLITICO.

    SNIP

    Making the issue more complicated is the $5 billion reduction in the program this fiscal year that went into effect last week when the additional SNAP dollars provided temporarily through the 2009 stimulus package expired.


    My My My (2.00 / 1) (#80)
    by Politalkix on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 05:35:52 PM EST
    Brazil also spys! link

    and their income inequality is among the highest in the world. link

    Seriously? (5.00 / 4) (#84)
    by sj on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 05:47:21 PM EST
    Because this is exactly the same thing as intercepting internet traffic and telephone information on millions of civilians AND world leaders AND business leaders on domestic AND foreign soil. Oh wait! No it's not!
    The Brazilian government confirmed Monday that its intelligence service targeted U.S., Russian, Iranian and Iraqi diplomats and property during spy activities carried out about a decade ago in the capital Brasilia.

    Do you actually read the things you link to? Just in case, let me quote that again:
    The Brazilian government confirmed Monday that its intelligence service targeted U.S., Russian, Iranian and Iraqi diplomats and property during spy activities carried out about a decade ago in the capital Brasilia.
    No matter how much you and the author want to pretend it's the same thing, it really isn't.

    Parent
    Brazil's not some backwater banana republic. (5.00 / 2) (#137)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 11:13:17 AM EST
    For quite some time now, the country has enjoyed one of the fastest growing economies in the world. It is clearly an emerging world power, and will most certainly be challenging the United States for regional dominance in Latin America in our lifetimes -- and may well win.

    Further, this is a country that has countenanced the shooting of street urchins as a depraved form of social control in Rio de Janeiro, Sao Paolo and elsewhere. If Brazil's local governments are capable of doing that, it's hardly farfetched that its national government would spy on not only its own citizens, but those of its South American neighbors, too. Brazilians have a long and well-documented history of doing just that, and such behavior doesn't change over the course of just a few years' time, historically speaking.

    Look, countries and people spy on one another all the time, friend and foe, in war and in peace. Espionage is rooted in our innate human drive for survival, by which we've sought to anticipate potential threats to ourselves and our families, and has been an ongoing practice on since mankind first started to organize socio-economically into clans, tribes and eventually, independent nation-states.

    While the United States has the capacity to gather and process enormous amounts of data and intelligence on a global basis, which obviously sets us apart in terms of scale, I hope that we can please dispense with the notion that we are somehow the only ones engaging in espionage against both ourselves and other nominally friendly powers. We're not.

    I'm neither saying nor arguing that our spying on our own selves and our friends is necessarily right, ethical or even excusable, given the fact that other countries do the same. I'd just like to see some reasonable discussion about how to resolve this important issue, without it devolving into emotional tit-for-tat, i.e., "they did it, too!" and "well, we did it worse!"

    Aloha.

    Parent

    So did YOU read the link? (none / 0) (#140)
    by sj on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 11:23:57 AM EST
    Yes, I did. (none / 0) (#152)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 03:11:17 PM EST
    And from my perspective, the overall argument is irrelevant since most all countries engage in espionage, and the fact that they are certainly shouldn't be used to excuse what our own NSA is doing. That's all I'm saying.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Of course all countries (none / 0) (#153)
    by sj on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 03:42:36 PM EST
    engage in espionage. We grew up expecting it. Remember "Spy vs. Spy" and "Man from U.N.C.L.E"? That didn't desensitize us to this level of intrusion into our personal lives.

    And I agree with this short comment of yours. But it sure as he|| wasn't what I got out of your longer comment.


    Parent

    My point was in the last paragraph: (none / 0) (#163)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 09:08:07 PM EST
    "I'm neither saying nor arguing that our spying on our own selves and our friends is necessarily right, ethical or even excusable, given the fact that other countries do the same. I'd just like to see some reasonable discussion about how to resolve this important issue, without it devolving into emotional tit-for-tat, i.e., 'they did it, too!' and 'well, we did it worse!'"

    The subject of the NSA's domestic and overseas surveillance has been hijacked by some here as yet another excuse to mindlessly bash the president ad nauseum, while others resort to false equivalence to excuse the NSA's activities, which invites a retort about how simply awful the U.S. is.

    This is a serious issue worthy of serious debate, but some serious schoolyard hyperbole keeps getting in the way. We need to be realistic about the nature of espionage, because like it or not, we're not going to be able to get rid of it. All we can do is take proactive steps to mitigate its adverse impact upon our own lives to the greatest extent possible.

    The vast majority of this information and data that's presently being gathered about us and others is being done so by corporate interests, not the NSA. The feds are simply mining what's already long been put out there. Personally, I'm less worried about what the NSA does with our personal information in the name of national security, than I am about that data and info being used to further private interests and / or corporate agendas at our own ultimate individual and collective expense.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    If they had our technology and power (2.00 / 1) (#96)
    by Politalkix on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 06:17:56 PM EST
    they would do everything we have done and more. GUARANTEED!

    Parent
    "IF" and "POWER" say it all... (none / 0) (#113)
    by gbrbsb on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 10:15:20 PM EST
    ... because they don't have the power so their only protection from the spying powerful is to spy on them as best they can... forewarned is forearmed!

    Parent
    spies (none / 0) (#82)
    by Politalkix on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 05:38:34 PM EST
    My AFC Chargers... (none / 0) (#1)
    by Dadler on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 11:10:35 AM EST
    ...proved to be the frustrating enigma they've been for the last fifteen years. Sigh...

    oops, wrong thread on this one n/t (none / 0) (#3)
    by Dadler on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 11:17:22 AM EST
    Why don't you crack them open, and ... (none / 0) (#73)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 05:04:50 PM EST
    ... maybe you'll find a riddle inside.

    Parent
    I can't get over the gaul... (none / 0) (#4)
    by kdog on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 11:24:22 AM EST
    of the Kings of Bias (Bloomberg & Kelly) crying about anybody elses bias. The nerve!

    Not that I believe bias played any part in Judge Scheindlin's ruling...from this laymen's view, Stop & Frisk is so obviously afoul of the 4th and 13th amendments, any unbiased judge would have to come to the same ruling. Unconstitutional.

    And What is Up With Bernie Kerik ? (none / 0) (#26)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 01:54:18 PM EST
    I keep seeing him on the TV with tales of injustice in the prison system.  I didn't even know he went to prison much less got out.

    But it's mildly bothersome that a guy behind many of those injustices is out there running around acting like he didn't put many of those folks in prison.

    Parent

    Ain't it funny... (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by kdog on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 02:25:31 PM EST
    how the enlightenment always comes when they no longer are in a position of power to do something about it.

    That being said, I'm happy to hear he's finally seeing the light....more than I can say for his old boss Rudy.

    Parent

    I Don't Buy It... (none / 0) (#127)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 09:34:05 AM EST
    ...IMO he's only 'enlightened' because he's working an angle.  He can no longer be on the side doing the injustice because he is a felon.

    Guys like that don't change their stripes, his stories of people being locked up for crack are unbelievable when you consider where he did his time.

    Parent

    Could be just another hustle... (none / 0) (#128)
    by kdog on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 09:46:17 AM EST
    from a lifelong hustler...to be sure.  Is he schilling a book or something on the talk show circuit?

    I'm just not trying to be like Bernie and give the benefit of the doubt...hard work sometimes to not become what you despise.  

    Parent

    Who Knows... (none / 0) (#136)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 11:00:39 AM EST
    ...but if I were to guess, some sort of consulting, that is what all these folks do.

    I just don't buy that the guy who ran Rikers, who was the Chief of Police in NYC all of sudden sympathizes with the very folks he once locked up.

    Totally unrelated, but I watched Miracle this weekend.  Great movie, but nearly every single player on that team is currently in insurance or banking, with nice titles.  Why is that, name recognition ?  But same with the fallen politicians, they go into consulting, why is that, name reconition ?  Easy cash ?

    Parent

    And back to Kerik... (5.00 / 3) (#141)
    by kdog on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 11:32:21 AM EST
    Upton Sinclair perhaps said it best..."It's difficult to make a man understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it."

    Parent
    In the case of athletes... (none / 0) (#138)
    by kdog on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 11:21:00 AM EST
    I think it's probably idol worship & name recognition...who wouldn't want a former Heisman Trophy winner slinging their insurance/financial products for them, just for the glory days stories around the water cooler alone? And on the customer side too...a formerly famous athlete is gonna get their foot in a door to make a pitch faster than Joe Blow. Starf*cking, if you will.

    In the case or politicians, probably more so the connections in government to call in favors that gets the 6-7 figure consulting gigs.  Not so much name recognition, as politicians are almost universally hated, not adored like athletes.  AKA It's not what you know, it's who you know...the way of the world.

    Parent

    You can't keep your insurance (none / 0) (#5)
    by Slado on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 11:27:52 AM EST
    and now you can't keep your Doctor.

    These stories won't stop.

    That (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 02:49:02 PM EST
    is because of the insurance company. Insurance companies have been doing this forever. Once again, conservatives can't bring themselves to tell the truth and the truth is the crux of the problem is the insurance company's business model. This particular lady would not have even been able to get ANY insurance due to preexisting conditions because United Healthcare has decided it can't compete with BCBS and Kaiser in CA.

    You know, if yo're going to talk about Obama lying, conservatives should quit lying too.

    Parent

    Everyone seems to have developed (5.00 / 4) (#37)
    by Anne on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 02:59:32 PM EST
    a selective form of amnesia when it comes to the business of insurance.  These companies have for years been pulling out of states because strong state insurance commissions were mandating coverages they decided wouldn't allow them to make enough money.

    What's new about this?  Nothing.

    I just have no idea why the frogs are so shocked that the scorpion will eventually use its stinger.  What is the tag line to that fable?  "Because that is my nature."  And what UHC did in California, other companies have done in other states - just pulled up stakes for more lucrative pastures.

    That is their nature, and the inevitability of it has been obvious from the beginning.

    Parent

    So your argument (none / 0) (#42)
    by Slado on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 03:15:11 PM EST
    is this poor cancer victim doesn't know what she's talking about?

    Ok.

    Parent

    Apparently (5.00 / 3) (#47)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 03:22:27 PM EST
    she has no understanding of how insurance works. Insurance companies drop doctors all the time. Doctors don't renew contracts with insurance companies all the time. She's experiencing a typical problem with INSURANCE and is blaming Obamacare instead of the insurance company. This is something the insurance companies do all the time. You guys wonder why nobody questioned Obama on what he said about Obamacare? Because the majority of people have no clue about insurance and how it works.

    Parent
    Which says to me, (5.00 / 2) (#63)
    by Zorba on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 03:54:49 PM EST
    as I have been saying for a long time, that health "insurance" is not the way to provide actual health care.
    As you said previously, this is the business model of insurance companies.  In order to maximize their profits, they need to minimize their pay-outs.
    How in the ever-loving he!! anyone with any sense thinks that this is the best way to provide health care  still flummoxes me.  Single-payer.  Universal Health Care.  Medicare for All.  Whatever you call it.  That is what we need.
    You could even use the health insurance companies if you want to (although I really don't want to, except for supplemental insurance).  
    Switzerland does this.  However, they very firmly regulate the insurance companies, and by Swiss law, they are not allowed to make a profit from the mandated health insurance.  They are allowed to make a profit from what we would consider "supplemental" insurance, however.
    I would even be able to live with this.  Not my ideal, but better than the ACA.  However, we do not seem to be willing to regulate the health insurance companies to the extent that the Swiss are.

    Parent
    I agree (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 04:14:51 PM EST
    and this whole discussion is beyond annoying to me. But the bright side is that conservatives are inadvertently making a case for single payer by saying that Obamacare is awful. They really should love Obamacare because it's something that they believe in---the for profit insurance model.

    Parent
    So let me understand (none / 0) (#89)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 06:06:51 PM EST
    The fact that all the policies must meet Obamacare req's has NOTHING to with the cancellations.

    You know, you have finally managed to insult me... I mean if you actually think I buy any of that you must think I'm stupid.

    No more LOL at this.

    Tears for all the people who are being hurt by this.

    Parent

    Here (5.00 / 2) (#102)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 06:42:59 PM EST
    is another article debunking another conservative hoax link

    Conservatives were crowing about this lady losing her coverage but what she had before wasn't even insurance. It was basically a discount plan with no hospitalization coverage.

    Really if you want to criticize Obama at least you can quit lying. There are plenty of problems with it but lying about Obamacare does not help you make your case.

    Parent

    You could (none / 0) (#95)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 06:16:08 PM EST
    care less about the people that are hurt by this because you cannot celebrate the people that are being helped by it. Some of the high deductible junk policies are being cancelled because they don't meet the requirements. In the case stated by the WSJ the insurer was pulling out of the market because it couldn't compete with two other insurers. So lying about that particular case does not help you make your case. I mean your hero Paul Ryan wants to turn Medicare into Obamacare but somehow conservatives think that is wonderful. If you think Obamacare is a nightmare can you imagine the horror stories that would happen if the Ryan plan ever got instated? We would have millions of people unable to get ANY treatment at all. Talk about "death panels" for millions of eldery people in this country. Let the for profit insurance companies handle their healthcare. You go for it!!

    Parent
    Yep (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by Yman on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 06:29:18 PM EST
    Just because she's a "poor cancer victim" doesn't make her correct in her opinion about the reason for her health insurance company's decisions.

    The Real Reason That The Cancer Patient Writing In Today's Wall Street Journal Lost Her Insurance

    But Sundby shouldn't blame reform -- United Healthcare dropped her coverage because they've struggled to compete in California's individual health care market for years and didn't want to pay for sicker patients like Sundby.

    The company, which only had 8,000 individual policy holders in California out of the two million who participate in the market, announced (along with a second insurer, Aetna) that it would be pulling out of the individual market in May. The company could not compete with Anthem Blue Cross, Blue Shield of California and Kaiser Permanente, who control more than 80 percent of the individual market. "Over the years, it has become more difficult to administer these plans in a cost-effective way for our members," UnitedHealth spokeswoman Cheryl Randolph explained. "We will continue to keep a major presence in California, focusing instead on large and small employers."...

    Get that? The company packed its bags and dumped its beneficiaries because it wants its competitors to swallow the first wave of sicker enrollees only to re-enter the market later and profit from the healthy people who still haven't signed up for coverage.



    Parent
    Conservatives (5.00 / 2) (#104)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 06:45:36 PM EST
    are banking on the fact that people are completely ignorant on this whole subject. As you see apparently Slado and Jim have ZERO understanding of how insurance works.

    And here in GA the legislature mandated that the insurance companies tell people that it was due to Obamacare whether it really was or not. The conservatives here in GA mandated that the insurance companies LIE to their policy holders. The insurance companies don't need any help in lying but apparently the legislature here in GA thinks they do.

    Parent

    This subject.....and every other one. (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by ruffian on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 09:30:48 PM EST
    Keeping the rubes completely  ignorant has been the conservative game plan for quite a while.

    Parent
    Yeah (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 05:43:45 AM EST
    I thought I'd point out that Covered California didn't allow grandfathering of plans if insurance companies wanted to participate in Exchanges.  Insurers who participated in Exchanges were required to cancel any non-compliant plans.  

    Slado, people don't don't want to hear this.  They want to keep their heads in the sand.  It's a "right wing talking point".

    It's the horrible insurance companies that are doing this cancelling of plans and narrowing of network.  It had nothing to do with the onerous requirements of the law that made it so the only direction toward premium affordability was to cut the networks.  Did the good Democrats and the insurance companies work all this out in a backroom deal?  They figured, let's require everyone to carry this ridiculous amount of coverage and then tell them we're saving them money on their "better insurance" by cutting their network?  I wouldn't be surprised.

    If not, the good Democrats are complicit in it anyway. When the rates came out for Exchange plans, they simply said "see, look, our premium rates are coming in low! without saying why the rates are so low (because the plans are the HMO's they ran against in the 90's)".

    Why did the Democrats try and swindle people by making that sunny but extraordinarily misleading statement?  Why didn't they say, THOSE MEANIE INSURANCE COMPANIES ARE NARROWING THESE NETWORKS AND JACKING US IN WAYS OUTSIDE OF THE RATES.  

    The silence is deafening.  It is an enabling silence.  You are part and parcel to the nightmare people are going to face because you're remaining silent and minimizing this.

    Talking about the fact that the law caused this in an extraordinarily accelerated way is  just voicing right wing talking points?  If the right wingers had done it, people here WOULD be screaming.  Well, actually the right wingers did do it along with the right wingers in the White House.

    And plans like this are almost exclusively offered on the Exchange, where people who need subsidies for the ballooned premiums have to buy them.  You can buy plans that aren't narrow outside of the Exchange, but of course the premiums are ballooned   -- and magically the good Democrats didn't allow subsidies for plans outside of the Exchanges.

    The old farce "insurance companies have been doing this for years is yet another a lie."  We had moved away from these kinds of plans.

    Until now.  They're back. With silence from the Democrats.  With complicity from Democrats.

    ....except to trash a cancer patient who has to deal with them.  Her situation is REAL.  And she can get insurance outside of the Exchange with the 40% ballooned premiums.


    In another time Democrats would be screaming.  If another party had done it, they would be screaming

    The current behavior is maddening, infuriating, disgusting.  

    It's all about the team to the party faithful.  It's not about human beings.  It is raw hypocrisy.  I am hoping that someday the silence harms the people who said nothing.

    Parent

    Shhhhh, they're busy (none / 0) (#16)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 12:53:42 PM EST
    holding their hands over their eyes.

    Parent
    Yup (none / 0) (#38)
    by Edger on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 03:05:43 PM EST
    Yup
    "It's not a government takeover of medicine," he told the crowd. "It's the privatization of health care." In fact, Obamacare, he said, was largely based on past Republican initiatives. "If you took George H. W. Bush's health plan and removed the label, you'd think it was Obamacare."


    Parent
    Ah that makes sense (none / 0) (#58)
    by Mikado Cat on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 03:37:12 PM EST
    They are laying the groundwork to blame the failure of Obamacare on Bush.

    Parent
    Whereas your comment ... (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by Yman on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 06:15:29 PM EST
    ... makes absolutely no sense.

    Parent
    Lol. (none / 0) (#60)
    by Edger on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 03:44:36 PM EST
    Right. Bush made Obama do it. Sure. Poor guy is so pathetically powerless he needs all the love and support he can get....

    Lol.

    Parent

    The stories will stop (none / 0) (#28)
    by christinep on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 02:22:42 PM EST
    but, in view of the fact that these Republican talking points have been harped on since the 1930s, it will take a little while longer for the positive reality to put the lie to your claims.

    Parent
    Yup (none / 0) (#39)
    by Edger on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 03:08:43 PM EST
    Yup
    This is not surprising, because Obamacare's models are right-wing models -- the Heritage Foundation's healthcare plan in the 1990s and Mitt Romney's "Romneycare" in Massachusetts.


    Parent
    Also, from your PNHP link (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by MO Blue on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 03:29:45 PM EST
    Nor are progressives likely to press the point in present or future debates.  Unlike conservatives, who are right-wingers first and Republicans second, all too many progressives put loyalty to the Democratic Party -- most of whose politicians, including Obama, are not economic progressives -- above fidelity to a consistent progressive economic philosophy.  These partisan Democratic spinmeisters are now treating Obamacare, not as an essentially conservative program that is better than nothing, but as something it is not -- namely, a great victory of progressive public policy on the scale of Social Security and Medicare.

    In doing so, progressive defenders of Obamacare may inadvertently be digging the graves of Social Security and Medicare.

    If Obamacare -- built on means-testing, privatizing and decentralization to the states -- is treated by progressives as the greatest liberal public policy success in the last half-century, then how will progressives be able to argue against proposals by conservative Republicans and center-right neoliberal Democrats to means-test, privatize and decentralize Social Security and Medicare in the years ahead?



    Parent
    Weak (none / 0) (#41)
    by Slado on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 03:14:21 PM EST
    Obamacare is 100% democratic.

    Own it or disown it.  Stop blaming conservatives for your problems.

    Parent

    Oy (5.00 / 2) (#54)
    by sj on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 03:31:50 PM EST
    Obamacare is 100% democratic.
    That's just a substitute for analysis. That is your default conclusion for anything. It's either that or Big! Government! Bad!

    Parent
    It should be clear by now (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by Edger on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 03:42:08 PM EST
    to anyone actually analysing, that one side blaming democrats and one side blaming republicans for the same thing being sold by the con men to both is exactly what the two party scam is doing to everyone. And laughing.

    Parent
    Uh, the Democrats passed it. (none / 0) (#90)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 06:08:41 PM EST
    They own it.

    Parent
    Well, that's true enough (none / 0) (#115)
    by sj on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 10:22:26 PM EST
    Uh, the Democrats passed it. (none / 0) (#90)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 05:08:41 PM MDT

    They own it.


    For good or ill. While I truly hope it's good, so far? Who can say. The roll out was bad. Let's see what at happens at implementation.

    The plan, however, is still Republican. Let's hope they knew what they were talking about.

    Parent

    "Obamacare" is about as Democratic as (5.00 / 4) (#56)
    by Anne on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 03:34:30 PM EST
    the president is, which translates as "not very."

    I have little but contempt for Democrats who fell all over themselves embracing an ideologically conservative plan resurrected from the ashes of the Heritage Foundation/Bob Dole plan; I bristle at the notion that it in any way, shape or form represents what I consider "Democratic" ideals, but apparently, people like me don't matter to the Democratic Party anymore.

    I have no idea why it makes you feel better beating this Democrats-own-this horse; we all know who voted for it and who didn't and we also know that it isn't the progressive plan it could have been - or, in deference to MKS, who informs us that no way in hell was that possible, that Democrats didn't even really try all that hard to push for a better plan.  They all fell in line with the president, who declared single-payer off the table, and it wasn't until the public started screaming about it that some of the leadership had some nice "public option" bumper stickers printed up to placate us.

    We all know who to blame for this, but let's not kid ourselves about where it originated; even the president admits - and thinks it's a selling point: he's proud of that.

    Gotta hand it to Republicans, though; they took full advantage of Obama's need to please his opponents (he's less concerned with pleasing the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party), and got themselves something they don't have to take any ownership of.

    Parent

    Conservative policies are (5.00 / 3) (#61)
    by MO Blue on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 03:47:55 PM EST
    conservative policies whether they are written by the Heritage Foundation, advocated by Bob Dole,  implemented by Republicans like Romney or passed by Democratic votes. Just by looking at conservative plans for SS, Medicare and Medicaid and you will see that for yourself that they contain the same elements of Obamacare.

    ...the worst features of Obamacare are the very features that conservatives want to impose on all federal social policy: means-testing, a major role for the states, and subsidies to private providers instead of direct public provision of health or retirement benefits.

    This point is worth dwelling on. Conservatives want all social insurance to look like Obamacare.  The radical right would like to replace Social Security with an Obamacare-like system, in which mandates or incentives pressure Americans to steer money into tax-favored savings accounts like 401(k)s and to purchase annuities at retirement, with means-tested subsidies to help the poor make their private purchases.  And most conservative and libertarian plans for healthcare for the elderly involve replacing Medicare with a totally new system designed along the lines of Obamacare, with similar mandates or incentives to compel the elderly to buy private health insurance from for-profit corporations.


    Just because you don't want to accept that these are conservative policies, doesn't mean anything other than you don't want to accept it. These conservative policies only serve the corporate interest that mandates that people pay private corporations twice as much for poorer service.

    Parent
    Let's (5.00 / 2) (#70)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 04:46:25 PM EST
    not forget that Paul Ryan wants to turn Medicare into Obamacare. One of the leading "lights" in the current conservative movement is proposing basically the same thing for elderly Americans.

    Parent
    Wow (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 04:18:21 PM EST
    when did Bob Dole and Mitt Romney join the D party? We have an even bigger tent than I ever imagined.

    Parent
    You're chattering. (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 05:21:00 PM EST
    Slado: "Obamacare is 100% democratic. Own it or disown it. Stop blaming conservatives for your problems."

    I don't have any patience for your fact-free schtick, and it's really not worth my time to engage you. In the meantime, please re-acquaint yourself with Jeralyn's guidelines on chattering.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Donald, I have (1.00 / 1) (#92)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 06:14:08 PM EST
    no tolerance for people, like you, who think they're Table Captain.

    Slado spoke the truth.

    Obamacare is 100% Democratic. Quit whining and accept the reality of the disaster it is.

    Parent

    I'm glad (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 06:19:25 PM EST
    to know that Bob Dole and Mitt Romney are now Democrats. Boy, the GOP is shrinking even faster than I ever imagined. Did you know that you were voting for a Democrat when you voted for Romney? And his VP candidate wants to turn Medicare into Obamacare.

    Parent
    What health care plan is Republican? (none / 0) (#98)
    by Politalkix on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 06:22:17 PM EST
    Emergency rooms?

    Parent
    Okay, that was funny (none / 0) (#118)
    by sj on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 01:35:19 AM EST
    in a sad way, because it's true.

    But still only a partial truth.

    Parent

    What's the matter, Jim? (none / 0) (#108)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 08:56:08 PM EST
    Did somebody mix a little radiator seal with your Metamucil?

    Parent
    Donald, I have (1.00 / 1) (#93)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 06:14:08 PM EST
    no tolerance for people, like you, who think they're Table Captain.

    Slado spoke the truth.

    Obamacare is 100% Democratic. Quit whining and accept the reality of the disaster it is.

    Parent

    You're really not (none / 0) (#46)
    by Edger on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 03:22:27 PM EST
    paying attention, are you? Republicans are amateurs.

    Parent
    The Detroit Tigers got a new manager (none / 0) (#7)
    by jbindc on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 11:35:34 AM EST
    Brad Ausmus

    Ohhh, yeahhhhh.

    Beefcake don't win ballgames... (none / 0) (#13)
    by kdog on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 12:14:42 PM EST
    I'm gonna miss Smokin' Jimmy Leyland, baseball just won't be the same without him sneakin' smokes in the dugout tunnel.  What a manager, what a character...

    Parent
    Oh, (none / 0) (#14)
    by jbindc on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 12:23:20 PM EST
    I'm gonna miss Leyland terribly.

    But that era is over.  So hopefully Dombrowski's gamble on a first time manager works out.

    And we can appreciate the view in the meantime.  :)

    Parent

    Center for the Advancement of Mendacity (none / 0) (#43)
    by Mr Natural on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 03:16:54 PM EST
    takes a hit today from D.O.J.; SAC to pay $1.8 Billion penalty in exchange for pleading guilty to mass quantities of Wall Street insider trading.


    And now, the link to that story... (none / 0) (#45)
    by Mr Natural on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 03:18:12 PM EST
    is here.  Unless it doesn't work this time either.

    Parent
    And in today's episode of ... (none / 0) (#114)
    by shoephone on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 10:18:31 PM EST
    "Another Toddler Shoots Somebody":

    The Russellville Police Department is investigating an accidental shooting of a man by a child Saturday morning.

    RPD Public Information Officer Drew Latch stated police responded to 2409 E. Main St. (Walmart) at approximately 11:04 a.m. Saturday. in reference to a possible shooting. Upon arrival, officers witnessed a man who had injuries to his back. After further investigation, it was determined the man had accidentally been shot by his child. While the child was attempting to enter the vehicle, the child accidentally grabbed a hold of a loaded shotgun, that had not been secured, to help pull himself into the vehicle (truck).

    While grabbing the shotgun the child accidentally pulled the trigger and caused the shotgun to discharge and strike his father in the back.



    At least it was the person... (none / 0) (#117)
    by unitron on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 11:17:22 PM EST
    ..."responsible" (and I use the term loosely in this instance) for the gun that got shot instead of the kid himself.

    Parent
    SITE VIOLATOR (none / 0) (#124)
    by jbindc on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 08:15:09 AM EST


    Is there anyone who reads... (none / 0) (#143)
    by unitron on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 12:12:59 PM EST
    ...here, even if they don't post, stupid enough to spend any money with the outfits advertising themselves via those links?

    That's assuming that those outfits are behind it, and not their competitors trying to make trouble for them.

    Parent

    I highly doubt it (none / 0) (#145)
    by jbindc on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 12:36:44 PM EST
    Hey! (none / 0) (#149)
    by sj on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 01:36:21 PM EST
    I was parroted by a site violator! What's up with that? It's a little creepy.

    Your true identity comes out (none / 0) (#150)
    by jbindc on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 01:39:59 PM EST
    You SAID you work in IT.  Maybe you sit and spam all day?  :)

    Parent
    Don't have time for spamming (5.00 / 2) (#151)
    by sj on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 01:43:38 PM EST
    I'm too busy looking here for comments and info between builds :)

    Parent
    Has anybody (none / 0) (#154)
    by jbindc on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 04:00:48 PM EST
    heard from jeffinalabama lately?

    I emailed (none / 0) (#157)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 04:40:14 PM EST
    him the other day but haven't heard back from him. I hope he is doing okay. I'm kind of worried.

    Parent
    I was wondering the same thing (none / 0) (#158)
    by sj on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 05:06:50 PM EST
    I'm rather concerned. He surfaced here briefly in August and then went back into seclusion.  I hope he is alright.

    Do you hear that, Jeff? I so hope you are alright.

    Parent